A Chef's Journey Between Shanghai and Melbourne: Tina Zhao on Food, Identity, and Creative Freedom
Susan Su (00:25)
Welcome to Liminal Space, where we explore the thresholds of identity, culture, and experience. I am Susan Su, one half of the hosting duo, along with my friend, Matt. We've created this podcast for those who find themselves navigating the spaces in between, whether it's between cultures, worlds, or ideas. Each episode, we delve into the rich complexity of modern Chinese stories as told by those who exist at its peripheries.
diaspora voices, third culture kids, and individuals who embody the bridge between China and the world and between tradition and innovation. Step into liminal space with us where we find meaning in the transitions, the gray areas, and the moments of becoming.
Matthew Lu (01:09)
Today we have the pleasure of welcoming Tina Zhao, a Shanghai-Nese restaurateur, food marketing consultant, former celebrity chef, and advocate for female entrepreneurship, who spent most of her adult life in Melbourne. So Tina's journey bridges continents and cuisines and blends the creativity of the kitchen with the strategy of global
business. Welcome, Tina. It's great to have you.
Susan Su (01:36)
Welcome.
So excited for this.
Tina (01:37)
Hi guys, thanks for
Matthew Lu (01:39)
So just off the bat, just really curious, as someone who grew up in Shanghai, but also spent over 10 years in Australia, what was it that brought you to make such a big life change and move to a different country?
Tina (01:55)
So yeah, so I was born and raised in Shanghai and I moved to Melbourne when I was 17. The official reason I tell people is like, you know, I try to explore more of the world. But the real reason was I went to Melbourne to chase my first love. So yeah. Yeah, but it was lucky because I've got relatives living in Australia.
Matthew Lu (02:09)
Yeah.
Susan Su (02:13)
you
Matthew Lu (02:15)
Wow.
Tina (02:20)
and that's why my parents was actually okay if that's what you want to do you should go so my parents was being quite supportive at the time not like most of the Chinese parents so I feel quite lucky
Matthew Lu (02:32)
Wow, that's the lengths that people go to for love. ⁓ Very romantic of you. yeah, so, you know, when we think about people around that age, like 17, 18, it seems like our value systems and our worldview, they're kind of already forming around that time. But, you know, from what I know about you and our...
Tina (02:36)
you
Matthew Lu (02:54)
conversations, it seems like you're really someone who kind of internalized and opened yourself up to like the Australian culture and value system. So what was it like when you first got there? Like, was there a lot of culture shock? Or were you kind of just like super open minded the whole time?
Tina (03:13)
Well, there were definitely a lot of culture shock, even though I mean, I think I was lucky enough that I actually studied in international school before I went to Australia. I thought my English level was okay, but definitely language is not the only thing you need to survive or get used to a new culture. So I think when I first arrived in Melbourne,
The very first thing shocked me was the architectures and everything. At the time Shanghai was quite developed already with all the tall buildings like the Pudong and the Bund and everything. We are still always a very big international city. So when I first hit Melbourne, I thought it's a very, very countryside place. It probably is, but it's a very big difference.
Matthew Lu (03:44)
Mm.
Tina (04:04)
So that's just the city difference. And then it's definitely about people and culture. So as we all know, Australia is a very big immigration country. So you just meet all sorts of races of people there, know, like Chinese, white people, Indians, and a lot, a lot, more. So there were a lot of culture shocks.
But overall, would say I really enjoy Australia's culture, which is all about equality. People treat each other really nice. Whether you're blue collar or whether you work in the office, what your job is, it doesn't really matter. People just being super real to each other. there's no...
Matthew Lu (04:37)
Mm.
Tina (04:50)
a lot of drama are like we definitely definitely not judged by your look because we all wear thongs all the time like whether you're a millionaire or you're just there like you know cleaning the toilet we all wear the same maybe target clothes or stuff like that yeah
Matthew Lu (04:56)
Mm.
Gotcha.
Susan Su (05:07)
Yeah, yeah. know in America, we have like athleisure and like the yoga pants, sweatpants. I imagine that's a similar vibe in Australia. So I want to first zoom out because I think the audience, they don't know who you are yet. So before we dive into your background, your childhood, etc. Can you give like a one sentence blurb of what you do now in Shanghai, the restaurant you're working at and then
Tina (05:13)
Thank you.
Matthew Lu (05:13)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (05:23)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (05:34)
And then I'm going to follow up on how you got there. And we can start from the beginning. So what do you do now, Tina?
Tina (05:41)
Yeah,
so my role now is the owner and I'm running a restaurant called Alinta. Alinta is a modern Australian cuisine bistro. So the meaning of Alinta is actually in Australian Aboriginal language means fire. So I was in Melbourne, I was in Australia. So when I come back to Shanghai, I try to bring what has inspired me or what my past.
10 or 15 years life is to Shanghai and to show people what the real australian culture is.
Susan Su (06:10)
Yeah, yeah, no, we wanted to hear that because I think that is how you and Matt met, right? When Matt visited your restaurant in Shanghai and liked it so much that he's like, Susan, I think we found our next podcast guest. like, great. now, ⁓ yeah, I'm sure I would, I'd love to visit next time. But okay, now that we know who you are, then I'll kind of go back to where Matt left off. So you...
Tina (06:19)
You
Matthew Lu (06:24)
Yeah, it's the vibe.
Susan Su (06:37)
moved to Australia at the age of 17 to chase after your first love. But that didn't end up working out well in the long run, but you ended up staying in Australia and eventually going to a culinary school. So what walk us through that path? Oh, yeah, what did you like? Yeah, how did you end up in culinary school? What came out of that?
Tina (06:41)
Yes.
⁓ Yeah, so yeah, like I said, so I went there for for of course for further study and for my first love but at the time my parents also wanted me to get a PR, know, the permanent resident at Australia. So like I think 20 years ago, it was kind of easy if you choose the right career like at the time Australian is more of the like
Matthew Lu (07:11)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (07:22)
chef, hairdresser, nurses, accountant. I think out of all those, I choose to learn culinary, like to be a chef or just at least to learn what cooking was or hospitality. I mean, I wasn't sure that I'm going to have this for my, I'm going to do this for my entire life or the future career at the time. But it was simply just a mindset that I can at least feed myself well. So I went to.
Matthew Lu (07:25)
Okay.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (07:48)
the culinary school first and it was two years course. First year was actually in the kitchen so I learned all the Western cuisine of cooking and the second year was actually about hospitality management so you learn all the ⁓ paper things around like how to run hotels, how to do restaurants and stuff like that.
And also after I graduated from the culinary school, I actually went to Monash University for further study, which I learned marketing and economics. So, but along the way, you as or most of the overseas students, I was doing my part-time at restaurants at the time. I was quite lucky that I worked in all those like fine dining or chef has restaurants in Australia.
Matthew Lu (08:17)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Tina (08:34)
because we don't have Michelin system, we do chef hats. which ⁓ probably, yeah, so we like, if it's three chef hats, it's probably equals to three Michelin stars. ⁓ So I walked in two chef hats and one chef hat restaurants. So I think that's where I started my restaurant or like FMB career, because I really trained well. think I really appreciate.
Matthew Lu (08:37)
Mm.
Interesting.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Got it.
Tina (09:01)
the way that my manager or the nobu or the restaurants I used to work, how they train the staff. I keep telling my staff now, like, you know, the super expensive sake or the wine they have right now. I mean, I tell my friends and customers, I was able to try them when I was 18 or 19. The system believe that, you you cannot tell your customers what a good food or what a good wine is until you try it yourself.
Matthew Lu (09:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Tina (09:29)
You need to develop
Matthew Lu (09:29)
That makes sense.
Tina (09:30)
your own taste and how you feel about it. And that's what makes a good house person. Yeah. So that's how I started. And along the way also Melbourne has so much good food, like cuisine is from everywhere. So for all of these, I think I really, really enjoy food and beverage business and also love good food. So I think that's how I end up with doing this.
Matthew Lu (09:34)
Right.
Awesome.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (09:57)
industry.
Matthew Lu (09:58)
Gotcha. Awesome. So
yeah, I remember you telling me, I guess in the past that before you started culinary school, you actually hadn't really cooked at all. Is that right?
Tina (10:10)
Yeah, I mean, as most of the single child, probably, especially Shanghai, and probably as a girl, I don't know if I should say that, but we don't really do a lot of housework back then at home. ⁓ Yeah, so I never really, I remember because my mom actually runs restaurants when I was young, she had a few restaurant franchises, so she was quite busy.
Matthew Lu (10:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah
Okay.
Tina (10:35)
My dad was actually working for the government, so he's like a policeman. So he worked more time. So when I was young, I think my dad do most of the cooking at like how people... Yeah, everybody says... because most people say, Chinese guys do the cooking and stuff. It was true. ⁓
Matthew Lu (10:40)
Mmm.
okay. Yeah, same in my family, actually. My dad's much better, but my mom's gotten a lot better.
Susan Su (10:49)
Same here, yeah.
Matthew Lu (11:00)
⁓ okay. I think-
Tina (11:03)
in my home, yeah, in my family. ⁓
Matthew Lu (11:05)
I think dads,
dads put more MSG. They like don't care. They want the flavor.
Tina (11:07)
Yeah. ⁓
Susan Su (11:10)
My mom
puts more MSG for sure.
Matthew Lu (11:12)
okay.
Tina (11:13)
My dad don't allow any MSG at home so it's gonna get more healthier.
Matthew Lu (11:16)
Okay, healthy, healthy. So like, yeah,
Susan Su (11:16)
Bye.
Matthew Lu (11:19)
that's pretty crazy to me, like, that you kind of took this year and then you learned, you know, you kind of upped your craft in cooking from zero to one. Because I just started cooking recently, having moved to a new apartment in Shanghai. The previous place that I lived in in Beijing, we just had like an electric stove and ⁓
It just seemed like a little bit harder to use, so I would always just order delivery like a lazy boy. But now, you know, I'm starting to experiment with learning how to cook from scratch. And I have to say it's easier than I expected, but also harder to execute than I thought at the same time. And so I guess for you that first year,
Tina (11:45)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (12:01)
like kind of acquiring these skills for the first time, did it kind of just click for you from the beginning? Or was it also kind of hard to kind of get into that?
Tina (12:12)
To be honest, think it was kind of my thing. I think it clicked really quickly. For me, I mean, I see cooking as a sort of arts, you know.
Matthew Lu (12:19)
Okay, great.
Tina (12:26)
As an artist, I think there are all sorts of artists in the world. were like crazy wise, were like really like very gentle, very delicate. So I'm the one that very freestyle, like I love pretty things. So as far as I remember, I got, I always got highest score at presentation, even how you, how you're the dishes. So I always got very...
Matthew Lu (12:38)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (12:50)
high scores on presentation and with the cooking itself, I think I'm the one who doesn't really follow the cookbooks that much. I, yeah, I just, I'm more freestyle. Like that's why a lot of people when they, when they ask me, what were you doing? said, I'm a chef. Most people were, were responded firstly, are you a pastry chef? You know, probably they assume that as a girl, you know, they probably do more pastries, desserts and
Matthew Lu (12:59)
Okay.
Mm.
Mmm.
Susan Su (13:17)
Yeah.
Tina (13:18)
I'm like, the least I can do is being a pastry chef. Because pastry is all about following the cookbook, the recipes. know, put five extra grams of butter, because the texture could be totally different. ⁓ That's definitely not for me. I just have to, I always try to do new sauces, you know, to mix different stuff and just to try different.
Matthew Lu (13:21)
Yeah, this is a weird stereotype.
Susan Su (13:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (13:27)
Yeah.
Susan Su (13:33)
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (13:34)
Mmm.
Tina (13:44)
combinations and sometimes almost actually works for me. So I'm proud to say I'm quite great with doing all the sources. So I.
Matthew Lu (13:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
The edamame at alinta, the special sauce on the edamame. So good. Yeah. And our friends are addicted. They couldn't stop.
Tina (14:01)
You like it?
I actually started to sell these for takeaways.
Matthew Lu (14:11)
Okay,
Susan Su (14:12)
Yeah,
you could sell them in bottles if you're so good with sauces. Like, I'm sure people would just like I would get some and bring it back to the States if I could.
Matthew Lu (14:12)
not surprised.
Tina (14:16)
That was.
Matthew Lu (14:19)
For sure.
Tina (14:19)
That's the
best.
Susan Su (14:20)
Yeah, no, that's cool. that's very cool to hear. think the people who enjoy baking versus cooking tend to have kind of distinct personalities. I do like both, but I think definitely baking you get away with a lot less, whereas cooking you can just freestyle and do whatever. And I think your emphasis on the display, like how you always make things very pretty,
That definitely helps in China, huh? When like people really love taking photos of their food and the whole presentation. That's really cool. Yeah. So I guess then continuing along your journey. after culinary school, you did some marketing work after Manoj. And so what was this time period like in kind of in between like...
Matthew Lu (14:47)
Mmm. The visual aspect.
Tina (14:47)
Yes. Yeah.
Susan Su (15:06)
like your time after culinary school in Australia and what made you decide to go back to China?
Tina (15:12)
Yeah, so actually before I decided I want to come back to China for at least like years I only come back to China once a year for holiday Just you know to stay for like two weeks or something to hang out with my family my friends and stuff So I remember that was about like 2012 to 2014 so
That was, think, the most vivid time in China or in Shanghai. Everyone is talking about entrepreneurship. Everyone is trying to build up something their own. And the economy was good. People are very positive about the future, So I came back and I talked to my friends. And I can feel like this guy is telling me, oh, you know, I'm trying to do this own business. I'm going to do my startup. Another friend is telling me...
Matthew Lu (15:53)
Hmm.
Tina (16:04)
I want to like, you know, I got a new partner. We're going to leave the company right now. We're going to create something new. So I think that's something that inspired me at the time because I love Australia. Don't get me wrong, but I think Australian life is really routine. It's simple. Like, you know, the way we live, we will say, we're really laid back, we're very chill. But on the other hand, it's just very boring compared to China.
Matthew Lu (16:20)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Tina (16:31)
So I think I was new, I wanna create something my own. When I was little, I always trying to do business, even like small business. I can share a story with you. And I think when I was in grade three, which is about like nine years old or something, yeah, around that. there was a summer vacation, my parents both go to work. So most of the time I stayed at home and my family was quite well off when I was little.
Matthew Lu (16:41)
Yeah.
Tina (16:57)
So I got this like video games in Chinese we call it xiao ba wang xue xi ji. So not many family have it at the start, I think. So I was quite lucky that I think my parents got me one when it's just released. So in the summer, I play it, right? So and then I wrote a note, say come to play for an hour. It's too RMP.
Matthew Lu (16:57)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
Tina (17:24)
online. All right. So I stick this on the front door of my home. And I go to the neighborhood and ask the kids that play with me say I sprayed water. I got this machine. I got this video games and you know, like, if anyone wants to play this, they just come. Yeah, so it's a it's a small neighborhood, but we do have a lot of kids and surprisingly, everyone's coming. So I have to
Matthew Lu (17:41)
my goodness.
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Tina (17:50)
actually registered everyone and put them in time slots. And so I actually made extra pocket money and I made a lot of friends in that summer. Everyone see me as the queen who can control the video games. Yeah, my very first business actually. And again, I was pretty appreciative that my parents knew it. I thought they're gonna shout at me like they're gonna...
Matthew Lu (17:57)
Mm-hmm.
Wow, your first business.
Tina (18:16)
Why did you do this? Blah, blah. Actually, they were quite surprised, but they're very supportive. My dad was like, wow, you're going to be a very good businessman when you grow up. You have this mentality when you are so young. I think ever since then, to now, I really always think about how to make money or how to ⁓ make different business models and stuff. yeah, coming back to the
Matthew Lu (18:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Mm-hmm.
Got it.
Tina (18:43)
to where I decided to come back to China, I thought, you know, all my friends that do something great, why would I waste my life in Australia? got my, I actually immigrated already, so I got my, I changed my passport. So I feel like there's nothing to lose, you know, if I don't like China life, because I've been away for so long, for like 10 to 11 years, if I don't like it, I can always go back. But if I love it, I would just stay here. So when I decided to come back to Shanghai,
Matthew Lu (18:51)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (19:10)
Because at the time my parents live in Shanghai, they didn't know it was a long time decision for me. They thought it's just another holiday for few weeks. So I secretly sold everything in Australia, like the car, the rent, I finished the rent. I everything. So I just came back. And then after I stayed here for like two weeks, they was like, oh, when are you going back? I'm I'm not going back. So you mean you're not going back?
Matthew Lu (19:19)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (19:33)
Surprise.
Matthew Lu (19:34)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (19:36)
Yeah, I surprised him. So what do you mean you're not going back? I'm like, I'm not going back. So after I moved back, I stayed at home for three months and then move out since then. Yeah. So that was the, you know, the entrepreneurship, the passion for that at the time was the reason I came back to Shanghai. And also, I don't really had a plan before I came back. I don't know exactly what I'll do. But I think at the time, there's a...
Matthew Lu (19:46)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Tina (20:04)
this seed in my mind that I probably want to do something related to food because that's where my passion and where I was like very familiar and good at. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (20:14)
Yeah, that definitely resonates with me. Like graduating from college in 2018, I also didn't really have a plan for what I would do after moving to China for my first job. But I definitely felt like things were changing here and there was a ton of opportunity. And so I just kind of like pushed myself here first and then I thought like, I'll figure it out later. And yeah, things turned out for the better.
So I think for sure, like that kind of enterprising pioneering spirit, the ability to accept the unknown and take those risks definitely pays off for a lot of people, right? Who are looking for something a little bit outside of their comfort zones, right? So another point I just kind of wanted to circle back on, when you were working at those like fine dining establishments in Australia,
you know, ⁓ between, you know, going to school or during going to school. Like, what was your experience like in those environments? Because, you know, there are more and more kind of shows and media nowadays, kind of trying to pick up on, you know, that high anxiety, of high fast paced environment in, you know, those fine dining restaurant establishments, and then turn that into, you know, the source of the drama for a lot of interesting.
Tina (21:03)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (21:31)
storylines like the bear, I don't know if you've seen. Yeah, the bear and also a lot of other interesting movies. like, was your experience kind of consistent with some of those mainstream representations? Or did you were you able to work in with a relatively chill people?
Susan Su (21:33)
The bear. I thought you were going to say that.
Tina (21:50)
Yeah, well, first of all, I'd like to say I order everything in the bed as real like all the things, all the things. It could be even worse in reality, but it's all real. And I remember like once month back, like when I was quite stressed with my own restaurant, my work and stuff. So my friend was, Tina, you know, the new episode is out. You should check it out. I was like, yeah, sure.
Matthew Lu (21:57)
⁓ man. Okay.
Susan Su (21:59)
even even the bear.
Matthew Lu (22:04)
Okay
Tina (22:19)
And then it just got me more and more stressed. Like I'm stressed in my real life. And then it got me more desperate when I watched it. Yeah. But I mean, like, this is just how the industry is. So I think everyone who really deep love the industry actually have a love and hate relationship with the F &B industry. It's just how it is. It's a people business.
Susan Su (22:22)
Thank
Matthew Lu (22:23)
Yeah.
Like, you feel the characters like very deeply probably.
Mmm.
Tina (22:46)
again you have to really deliver a lot like you have like you do have a high standard you have to follow all the SOPs and then the customers are all different right right you can't you serve the same thing but customers are different so you have to serve them the different way you have to communicate different ways and then you have your co-workers in the kitchen have your head chefs chefs can be in very
Matthew Lu (22:57)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (23:12)
virus styles. There are chefs are very gentle, not much, but some of them. But some chefs are just really, you know, shouting out and like golden Ramsey, like he's crazy, but that's real. This just how the kitchen's dress is like, because in there, you know, you know how customers when they order a dish, I know that in customers perspective, they would never think that way. But you know, when the
Matthew Lu (23:15)
Mmm. Mmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Tina (23:39)
when the staff just order a dish and when the kitchen got the docket. know, okay, one steak medium rare go, right? So after that, people, the other chefs or the cooks just have to prepare your food. Like one person maybe have to take out the steak from the sous vide. The next people probably have to put it on the pan and to sear it for like three minutes. And then the head chef or the one who's running the kitchen have to check maybe every three minutes how the steak go, blah, blah.
Matthew Lu (23:46)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (24:08)
Meanwhile, there are other 20 customers dishes are waiting. So I always tell my staff if a good kitchen staff or anyone who doing well in food and beverage business, can do anything because the multitasking skill is excellent. And the way they manage in time, the way they manage stress, I think it's just brilliant. It's just more than what people can see. Like, FB seems very easy.
Matthew Lu (24:12)
Mmm, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (24:35)
But the philosophy behind it is a lot of efforts and lot of ⁓ expertise.
Matthew Lu (24:40)
Mm.
Yeah, that makes sense. And especially, you know, in these fine dining establishments, you said like, they don't have Michelin stars, but they have like chef hats. ⁓ There's probably a lot of pressure to maintain those, right? And a lot of that comes from the customer satisfaction. But it seems like in that kind of chaotic environment, like a few small mistakes or mishaps could actually pile up very quickly into something disastrous if you don't solve it.
Tina (24:51)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (25:10)
And that would be awful, I suppose, for the reputation and the experience of the customers.
Tina (25:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (25:19)
Yeah, after, now kind of zooming forward a little bit, after moving to Shanghai, ⁓ what was kind of the first project that you were able to do that kind of connected food and your passion for business?
Tina (25:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so actually after I just came back, did a few different things. I have been an English tutor. I definitely went to a few interviews for just, you know, any normal jobs. But that just didn't happen or work for me. So there was a chance, I think after a month I got back, I've got some friends who introduced me to other friends.
Susan Su (25:41)
As have all of us.
Matthew Lu (25:40)
Okay, cool.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (25:59)
And then they brought me to a very new platform at the time. It's called Wo You Fan. It's something like full version of Airbnb. So they will invite different hosts that actually do different dinner or lunch menus on the platform. And if you it, you can just click and then you can go to their place. Most of them at the time was at their home, not like...
Matthew Lu (26:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (26:26)
do do some restaurants. you just can't, it's like you go to someone else home for dinner. But of course you pay for it with strangers. yeah, yeah. So I was brought to the, actually I was brought to the very first dinner they ever hosted on the platform. I remember there were, there were two girls and they cook some like fusion food and stuff. I mean, I love the concept.
Matthew Lu (26:31)
Yeah.
Cool concept.
Susan Su (26:36)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (26:49)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (26:51)
Honestly, I didn't enjoy the food that much. I probably have a bit more higher expectations. anyway, I think the concept and idea was brilliant. My friend, because my friend knows my background, she was like, why don't you try to be one of the hosts? So was like, yeah, sure, can be one of the hosts. so that's how I get started in Shanghai with the food business. So quickly, become quite popular on the platform.
Matthew Lu (26:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Tina (27:15)
With my background. So what I did at the time was I created a nine course menu Which is my place for the nine course. So the nine course is all about Australian Wagyu beef So each course will involve a different parts of the beef different cuts. It could be like the The sirloin steak or the back and things like that. So
Matthew Lu (27:41)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (27:42)
And also each of them ⁓ come with a different cooking method. Probably the first is a beef tartare. So it's a raw beef. And the second probably something else. also I made a PPT, like PowerPoint, to introduce all the different cuts of the beef. when I serve one food, when I serve one dish, they will see this slide. This is about this dish, right? So you see a cow. And this is
Matthew Lu (28:08)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (28:09)
the beef coming from, things like that. I think it went pretty viral at the time because I was quite creative. No one actually did that kind of style, know, eating with PPT and eating with more process. So I was quite popular at the time. So every time I post my dinner, it will be out in five seconds because not many slots. Yeah, I can only host to eight people.
Matthew Lu (28:11)
Yeah.
Yeah, your PowerPoint skills.
Wow.
Susan Su (28:34)
Wow.
Matthew Lu (28:36)
That's like J-CHILD concert tickets.
Tina (28:39)
Yeah, so and also I think I did have a bit of the strategy because at the time I think most of the the price per person was about 100 to 20 per person at a time. I mean by the other hosts. So but my dinner I think was about 450 per person. It was quite expensive to be honest.
Matthew Lu (28:54)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (29:03)
like 10 years ago. ⁓ But the reason behind that is first of course is because of all the ingredients I use are pretty pricey. The second is I try to, I mean, I see this platform not just for food, it's definitely a social connection places. So with that price range, actually, some of my best friends now are the friends that actually came to my dinner.
Matthew Lu (29:05)
Mm, yeah.
Right.
Tina (29:29)
at the time when I was doing private dining. So yeah, so they were, a lot of them were like CEOs of their own companies. lot of ⁓ them were doing their own startup at the time, but now it's like huge companies. Yeah. And some of them are like investors. Some of them are probably working in the F &B business already. So I made a lot of like quite quality friends.
Matthew Lu (29:30)
⁓ okay.
Gotcha.
That's crazy. That's like a triple win.
Tina (29:58)
Yeah, I just do my tape. Yeah.
Susan Su (29:58)
Yeah, yeah. And I think
you did mention that the people who like, who know food already will probably be more likely to go to your dinners given that they're, they're a little, they're more interesting, they're at a higher price point. So you do probably get a lot of really good connections from these opportunities.
Tina (30:07)
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (30:10)
Yeah.
Tina (30:13)
Yeah, so and I really appreciate that because I got a lot of like opportunities I will have, I will probably never have when I was in Melbourne or in Australia because you know, there was one time there was a celebrity chef, he came to my dinner. I don't really know him at the time because I only came back to China like few months, right? But he's, I'm not sure, his name is Brian.
Matthew Lu (30:30)
Mmm.
Who was it?
okay.
Tina (30:40)
Brian,
I think he's a pastry chef and he's now on, I think he's now doing a lot of shows and different events and stuff. So anyway, so Brian came to my dinner and then after dinner, he just talked to me very casually like Tina, do you want to be on TV show? I'm like, what, what, are you talking about? He's like, know, I'm on this food show. This is about like, two chefs competing with each other while cooking for
Matthew Lu (30:48)
Okay.
Tina (31:07)
for actors or celebrities and stuff. I was like, oh yeah, sure, why not? Yeah, was like, yeah, sure, why not? So the next thing I know is I was on the show and the hosts, the show hosts are the ones that I was watching their shows when I was a teenager in Shanghai. a lot of the guests, like the celebrities or the actors also
Susan Su (31:10)
Like Food Network.
Matthew Lu (31:17)
Mmm.
⁓ okay.
Susan Su (31:28)
Wow.
Tina (31:34)
the ones I watched their shows or watch their TV series when I was young. So it's, it's, I wouldn't call it a come true cause I never had this dream that I would come back one day and then be on the show. But there's really something like amazing. Like one, one day I was in Australia just being a normal person went to normal job. And then the next time I know I was be able on the show and my parents or my friends can watch me on the TV.
Matthew Lu (31:41)
It's a shock. ⁓
Susan Su (31:46)
Thank
Matthew Lu (32:03)
Yeah, that's crazy.
Tina (32:03)
And
it was crazy. Yeah, I love it. ⁓ The show was very, like I said, the show was actually pretty stressed because we do have to cook real food in real time. So with the cooking part is about two chefs. the guests, the show guests, like celebrities, well, we will have probably four to six chefs on the show and we're talking and chatting. Right. So
Matthew Lu (32:15)
no.
Tina (32:30)
There's a fridge in the show and they have ingredients. So they pick the ingredients for the chefs. And then we have, yeah, it's like a PK. It's like two chefs PK with each other. And everything is real. There's no like NG. There's no like, know, retake. Everything is one take. So if you...
Matthew Lu (32:32)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (32:36)
It's like chopped.
Matthew Lu (32:42)
Okay.
⁓ I
see.
Tina (32:52)
If feel yourself or if you humiliate yourself, then you humiliate yourself on the show. were just... You will see it on TV. It's really stressful. So in 15 minutes, they have a countdown like a clock. So in 15 minutes, both of the chefs have to finish a dish from the start. And not just you cooking. Meanwhile, the hosts and actors will actually come to talk to you.
Matthew Lu (32:57)
Okay.
Good for the 节目效果 for the show, I guess.
okay.
Tina (33:19)
So again, it's a multi-tasking. It's a multi-tasking. Like, yeah, what? You have to keep cooking and then it just constantly just tell me, oh, what are you doing right now? Why are you cooking this? Why are you doing this? Blah, blah, why? Like, shut the fuck Like, let me just work. Yeah, but anyway, so I did it because I did it too many times. Now, like, I mean, later it becomes very easy for me. But at the start, it's just a disaster, like super, super nervous.
Matthew Lu (33:20)
That's... That's so distracting.
Susan Su (33:24)
That's, that's,
that, yeah.
Matthew Lu (33:32)
haha
Yeah
Susan Su (33:35)
you
Matthew Lu (33:47)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (33:47)
Yeah, but it was quite fun. And then later I went to another other shows or like food competitions and stuff. So yeah.
Susan Su (33:56)
Wow, that's that's definitely quite the adventure. So how like how many years were you had you already been back in Shanghai when when you were on the show? Like how long had you been just half a year you were in China and you were already on a celebrity cooking show.
Tina (34:05)
⁓ Just hop in.
Matthew Lu (34:09)
wow.
Tina (34:12)
Yeah, exactly. sometimes I tell my friends, know, how we always say there's a New York dream. I feel like it's a Shanghai dream. you can, I also like if you can do it in Shanghai, can do it in everywhere else too. And it was crazy because when I came back to Shanghai in half a year, not just I was on the show, there were actually some magazines interviews as well. You know, what has been as a
Susan Su (34:21)
haha
Matthew Lu (34:36)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (34:39)
private dining celebrity host, know, what is being like a TV show chefs and stuff. And I was invited to a lot of events, you know, back then 10 years ago, there's no TikTok, right? There's no xiao hong shu, but then there were also very first live stream. So 10 years ago, I was doing live stream, like cooking shows or like show people how to cook and do all those good videos and stuff.
Matthew Lu (34:54)
Right.
Mmm
Tina (35:06)
Yeah, so at the time my boyfriend at time, my parents at the time, my friends at the time were all very proud of me. Like, oh, Tina is doing great. And my parents definitely proud of me. was like, I never imagined she's coming back. then somehow later on she becomes on all those TVs and my parents were called on my relatives.
Susan Su (35:07)
Wow.
Matthew Lu (35:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it was so fast too.
Susan Su (35:25)
Yeah,
yeah, I mean they didn't even want you to go back.
haha
Tina (35:30)
Yeah, so it was it was quite fun. It was quite fun
Susan Su (35:33)
Living the dream. So
you had only been back in Shanghai for like six months and after like a decade in Australia. So what was it like being back in Shanghai after so long and actually getting swept up in all of that? Any culture shocks from initially coming back to China?
Tina (35:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, definitely. think the very first big difference was the environment. Now I think Shanghai is doing great. But to be honest, like 10 years ago, Shanghai, Beijing, the air pollution was terrible. You never see blue skies. The air is terrible and just bad. I think the people at the time wasn't that nice.
Susan Su (36:06)
Mm.
Matthew Lu (36:07)
the air quality. Yeah.
Tina (36:18)
or maybe less to be honest compared to Australia. Yeah. But I think I managed to get used to it. each year I think it's just getting better and better. know, the environment and everything. think Shanghai is just really amazing in the speed of change. Like how? Because even before I came back for good, before I come here for holiday each year, Even one year, there's a lot of changes in Shanghai.
Matthew Lu (36:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Tina (36:43)
A year ago this building was there and then a later it's completely different. That's just how Shanghai is.
Matthew Lu (36:49)
China speed. Yeah.
Susan Su (36:49)
Yeah, I
definitely feel that about that time period, like the mid-2010s, even going back to Beijing every summer, remember a new building, a new mall. That was definitely a period of high growth for cities like Beijing, Shanghai.
Tina (36:56)
Yeah.
I also
remember because I came back at the end of 2014, right? So that was exact time that Uber starting to get into China market. So like, they are like competing with each other. So the taxi fare at the time was crazily cheap. Like I can go somewhere four kilometers away for five RMB.
Matthew Lu (37:17)
Okay.
Mmm.
Wow.
Susan Su (37:31)
Wow.
Tina (37:32)
It's just a war, you ⁓
Susan Su (37:33)
Dang. Because now we're like, okay, 5 USD is pretty cheap. That's like pretty standard, but 5 RMB for our listeners, that's like 70 cents. Yeah.
Tina (37:37)
Yeah, always.
Matthew Lu (37:42)
Yeah.
Tina (37:43)
Five, eight, ten. If your fare was 15 RMB, that means actually going to somewhere really, really far at the time with all the benefits and yeah. And also, think that was the time, know, is all about the private drivers, right? They drive their own cars come out and as a
Susan Su (37:51)
Wow.
Tina (38:05)
I think it's a very similar mentality with how I host on Woyou Fan as the food and B &B. So people actually come out not really about making money. It's really about social networking and meeting new friends and people. Yeah. So I remember there were a lot of like bands, Mini Coopers.
Matthew Lu (38:13)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Tina (38:27)
Just a lot of fancy cars and more than that I can't remember exactly but I just every time I go to Uber it's all fancy cars and it's all young people. You knew that they definitely not coming out for five RMB they just coming out. I don't know meet girls or meet new friends and stuff like that.
Matthew Lu (38:41)
Right, right.
Yeah,
trying to date.
Susan Su (38:46)
Wow, that's
different vibe. That's a little alarming for an Uber driver. Like, I would not be comfortable, but that's really interesting. I didn't know that happened.
Tina (38:49)
Yeah, it's funny.
Matthew Lu (38:55)
Yeah
So, kind of you did the food related shows for a bit and then, so did you decide to stop going on those shows or did they stop renewing them or like, yeah, how did you kind of get out of ⁓ show business, I guess?
Tina (39:15)
I wouldn't say I'm completely out of show business right now because if there were some shows that I think suits me I would still go on and off not as much as used to be. But like I said I always knew I wanted to do business so being a celebrity is definitely not my number one mission because I'm
Matthew Lu (39:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, okay.
Right.
Tina (39:36)
I know I don't sound like I'm actually very shy. I don't really want to be famous famous. Yeah, so I think I'm more like, know privacy, I definitely value privacy and I definitely want to build up something my own. So
Susan Su (39:40)
Thank
Matthew Lu (39:40)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. No privacy.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (39:53)
Besides show the previous years, I also did two or three startups with my partners on food. Yeah, so I had a healthy food brand called Lama Awake in 2015 also. And I also met a partner on my private dining dinner. he started the business first and three months later he came to my dinner.
Matthew Lu (40:01)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (40:18)
And then we knew each other. He invited me to do the business with him together as a as the product product manager. So I I in charge of all the R &Ds and a lot of marketing and stuff. So the highlight of the business was I was the first one that made the sous vide chicken the packaging, the packaging, the packaging sous vide breast in China.
Matthew Lu (40:23)
Okay.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (40:45)
probably two, I'm the first one here. And now you can see this selling all over the 7-elevens or, know, family mods and stuff. Yeah.
Susan Su (40:53)
Is it like the
Matthew Lu (40:53)
Yeah.
Susan Su (40:54)
whole like the jian shen, like the gym bro, like, like, yeah, like my packaged chicken breasts. Yeah. ⁓ I've definitely gotten that before. Yeah.
Tina (40:56)
Yeah
Matthew Lu (40:59)
quick protein. Thank you for that. you. Without you,
Tina (41:03)
Ha
Matthew Lu (41:04)
I don't know what I'd do.
Tina (41:06)
Yeah.
Susan Su (41:06)
Yeah,
I'm like, I don't want to cook actual chicken. Let me grab this and I can chop it up and just put it in things too.
Matthew Lu (41:12)
It always tastes decent.
Susan Su (41:14)
Yeah,
Tina (41:14)
Yeah.
Susan Su (41:15)
yeah, it doesn't taste like packaged chicken.
Matthew Lu (41:16)
Nothing weird tasting?
Tina (41:18)
Yeah, so
it was fun because at the very first start, you said, we are 100 % aiming at the gym people only, like only the people who actually go workout. But then with the marketing spread, we actually realized the feedbacks, not just the people who go to the gym or workout a lot, buy the chicken breast or we did beef as well, all those protein products.
Matthew Lu (41:31)
Yeah.
Tina (41:44)
Also the very busy working moms or the very busy working people, they also would buy it for kids. So that was the time I know we should not only focus on the gym people but to make it a more mass product for the mass customer base.
Matthew Lu (41:45)
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
for sure and people are really
busy, know, lunch break sometimes. You only have like 15 minutes. You know, you have to go to your next meeting. yeah, everybody, everybody goes for it now, you know, and not just the chicken breast, but you know, they, go to any convenience store, they have all types of sealed meats there for everyone to choose from. Yeah. And not meats too. Yeah. Well, you never know, but tastes okay.
Susan Su (42:24)
seals, not meats.
Tina (42:26)
you
Matthew Lu (42:31)
So that's cool. So kind of between doing your food startups and then starting Alinta last year, ⁓ What else kind of occurred during this gap in between ⁓ these years?
Tina (42:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah,
so I did two different food brands. And also in between, I actually went to American consulting firm. ⁓ That was actually a pretty big life change at the time, because before all I know was on the shelves, cooking, food always. But then I think it was a turning point that
Matthew Lu (42:56)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (43:09)
As far as I remember, I was quite stressed about all those shows and my own events, pop-ups and stuff, because I don't like to copy others, so I will always try to creative, but to constantly be creative on many designs, constantly try to
Matthew Lu (43:19)
Mmm.
That's a lot of pressure.
making the transition into like corporate life, right?
Tina (43:33)
So I mean like there was a lot of stress coming with all those compliments when I work in the food industry you know all the shows and stuff I'm trying to stay creative rather than copy others that's just me but being all the time you know to design new menus or to always stay very
Matthew Lu (43:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (43:53)
happy, like very energetic in front of the camera. I think that put a lot of pressures on me. And so yeah, so there was a time I think probably I want to do something else. I want to change the environment for a little bit. So again, I think I was pretty lucky. I found a job in American consulting firm and that was actually a very good company. We had like
Matthew Lu (43:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, strain, a lot of strain.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Tina (44:19)
15 different offices in the world. So we're doing data analysis. Yeah, we're doing data analysis for big companies to track their marketing our eyes. Sounds so boring just by saying it. my god. Anyway, I worked for the company for a year and half or almost two years. And I was not, I was actually doing
Matthew Lu (44:22)
Pretty big.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (44:34)
You're welcome.
Matthew Lu (44:40)
Okay.
Tina (44:44)
BD. I'm the my title is pretty high. It's VP. So Vice President of Business Development and all the clients that are dealing with really good world class companies like Nike or McDonald's and stuff like that. So I mean, I've definitely learned a lot during my
Matthew Lu (44:50)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Tina (45:04)
consulting from experience. like, yeah, my career is very short career. But like I said, I think it's just not for me. could tell it's just not for me. First is we have to take orders from the head office, which is New York. So I think our CEO involved a lot in the local business, which means we can do
Matthew Lu (45:06)
your career, your short career in consulting.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (45:29)
What we can do here is less, like we have to follow whatever office asks us. Yeah. So we don't really get to do a lot of our own actions. And that's definitely not me because you know, I'm freestyle. I don't like to follow orders. Yeah. No, no, no, no. I'm not rebelling, like I don't take orders. It's just she...
Matthew Lu (45:33)
Right, the big direction.
Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't want to take orders. Who are you?
Susan Su (45:42)
.
you
Matthew Lu (45:53)
okay. There's no room for your creativity, right?
Tina (45:58)
My big boss is actually a lady, but she only been to China like probably once. So she doesn't really know, I don't think she knows the local market that well. So all the procedures, all the ways they do is straightly the state's ways, you know, how they do business in America. They just try to copy everything here, which is definitely doesn't work. Because China...
Matthew Lu (46:00)
Mm, okay.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (46:20)
business market is very, very complex. just involves so much parties. It's just a lot of not honestly, purely business involves a lot of politics. You know, clients politics, the inner house problems. It's just, it's just complex, complicated. Yeah. But anyway, so I definitely learned a lot in the company. actually, my pay was pretty well. ⁓
Matthew Lu (46:30)
for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (46:46)
I was happy with the pay. I was happy with my title because it's pretty high end. don't know. At the time I got so much link. it's called LinkedIn. yeah. I got so many links. It's like all crazy title people like C levels from this from that. was like, who are you people? But anyway, yeah. So that's a completely different life from my food.
Matthew Lu (46:49)
Yeah, yeah.
Susan Su (46:58)
LinkedIn.
Matthew Lu (47:05)
Yeah. Yeah.
Susan Su (47:06)
and
Tina (47:13)
business life or food life. Yeah, it was fun but I also because of the COVID so I got laid off anyway, the second round. I think we had three laid off. The company has three left so I got laid off the second round. Yeah, so you feel you felt a release actually. Even though I lost a job but you felt a release because I know deep inside I don't really enjoy the work.
Matthew Lu (47:15)
Right.
Okay
Mm-hmm.
Tina (47:39)
⁓
Yeah, so I take a break after that. And once the gate opens, you know, at the time we cannot go travel because the whole COVID years I was in Shanghai. So after that, my parents actually asked me to go back to Australia. You know, they were like, I've been in China actually long enough. You experience a lot already. You should just get a family.
Matthew Lu (47:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Tina (48:04)
and you know you should get married, have a family and just live like normal life in Melbourne something like that and it's like because I was single at the time parents just assumed that you change a place you automatically get married I don't know I don't know how that happened but they're just think ⁓ if you're going back you can get married you can get kids blah blah blah
Matthew Lu (48:11)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Asian parents are, they have interesting expectations. Like when you're young, they're like, no dating,
Susan Su (48:30)
The timeline.
Yeah, the timeline crunch. Kids immediately, like grandchildren,
Matthew Lu (48:32)
no dating. And then when you're older, you're like, get married. But you said no dating.
Tina (48:32)
I
Ha!
Crazy. But I mean, at the time, think I was agreeing with them, you know, maybe I should move back for a little bit. So I remember I went back in like March or May something, can't remember exactly, but it was going back for a month because I was trying to plan for move back for good at the end of the year. So I think I stayed there for a month. The first week was
Matthew Lu (48:45)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (49:05)
really really great. was like yeah this is where I belong you know like people is nice environment is nice no one's too too hurrying everything like not just yeah I love it and then you know you're catching you know catch up with your old colleagues your uni friends your family and stuff okay the second week was all right too like you know I tried a lot of new places
Matthew Lu (49:15)
No shoes, right? No one to-
Mm-hmm.
Tina (49:31)
there's a new food, travel a little bit. But then the third week starting to routine your first week's life. So, Yeah. So after four weeks, I stayed for a month. After four weeks, I come back and I tell my parents. I was there with my parents, but like I came back, I decide I'm not going back yet. I was like, maybe I want to try a little bit more in Shanghai. So they were like...
Matthew Lu (49:38)
Yeah, it's like, it's the same exact schedule.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (49:58)
but what you want to do, know, like the economy has actually already been declining. It's not easy to, for me, if I want to find another job that compares to my salary, like before, it was pretty hard. Or do you want to do your food business again or something like that? So I thought about it and then it come to me, like, I always wanted to open a restaurant even when I just came back to China.
Matthew Lu (50:09)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (50:22)
It just never
Matthew Lu (50:22)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (50:23)
made the timing wasn't right. I don't have the right partner. didn't don't know what exactly I want to do. But I think now is the time like if I knew that this is gonna be my last chance to or at least to me, it was the last chance I want to try in Shanghai. Maybe I just do whatever I want to do at start. So that's how Alinta happened. I was like
I just, you know, if I want to open a restaurant, just open a restaurant. And if I don't know what kind of cuisine or what exactly I want to do, I just do what I'm more familiar with, you know, the fusion food from Australia. So that's it. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (50:55)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (50:57)
Yeah, wow.
Yeah. So tell us more about Olenta then. What? Yeah, you mentioned that the name means fire in the Indigenous Australian language. from when you first decided you want to start a restaurant to Olenta becoming like a brick and mortar store, like what what happened then? What went into the planning, the starting, the finding the right partners and then start actually opening the restaurant?
Tina (51:22)
Yeah, I'm the bigger shareholder of the restaurant, but I found a partner which is actually a 10 years old friend. So I knew him, I knew my partner since I came back to Shanghai. And he's always been in the food.
Matthew Lu (51:31)
Mmm.
Tina (51:36)
business. So he got his own restaurant. got a few his own restaurants. So I'm so close with him. I know him very well. So when I thought about I want to open a restaurant, he's actually the first one came to my mind that I want to partner with. So think he can teach me a lot in the whole process. And I know him well enough that I assume that we wouldn't have too many arguments or stuff like that. Yeah. So yeah, you have a really quickly like we clicked.
Matthew Lu (51:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, yeah.
Tina (52:03)
before we got a chance to partner something together it didn't happen but Alinta it happens so yeah so I got my partner and we just decided to do the restaurant but to be honest I was actually talking about this with my other friends yesterday how Alinta happened it's like a like a dream or like a deja vu like
Matthew Lu (52:23)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (52:24)
I said to the date the restaurant was built, like all the decoration was finished. I don't even know what I'm gonna put on the menu yet. I had a concept, but I don't know the exact dishes. It's just a lot. It's like one step. Like yesterday, I don't know what's going on tomorrow. Well, two weeks later, I got a menu. It's just like something is pushing you forward, but you add a...
Matthew Lu (52:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (52:49)
You don't really have any exact plans at the time. It's just like a dream. Looking back, because we've now opened for a year and a more than a year and a half. But looking back, I was like, I don't know how did that happen. Like, I just, yeah, just, yeah.
Matthew Lu (53:01)
that's interesting. You're like inspired and possessed
by some spirit of cooking.
Tina (53:07)
Yeah,
mean, it's definitely a lot of hard work. It's definitely a lot of conflicts. were a lot of, I don't know, crying, stress, everything. It's a mix of a lot of emotions, but it just happened. And like...
Matthew Lu (53:16)
Hmm.
Tina (53:23)
to the audience or to other people, it's just another restaurant. It's a small restaurant. not that big. It's about 95 square meters. So it's not huge. It's boutique. it's, because Matt has been there. like, I mean, it's cozy, but yeah, it's not like we took too much effort on it. It's not like everything is...
We don't really spend a lot of money on decorations or design because we designed the whole place ourselves to save money. We don't have no design fee. All the designing fee I paid was 10,000 RMB for just a C &G guy to do the floor plan. That's it. So all we do with the construction team was like we find so many pictures on Pinterest, on Instagram.
Matthew Lu (53:51)
Yeah.
Okay.
⁓ okay.
Susan Su (54:13)
You
Matthew Lu (54:13)
Okay.
Tina (54:14)
I later read a book, like all sorts of interior designs look. like, I want this, I want that, I want this color. So tried to save money, we don't really have any design. But I think it turned out right, right? So yeah, it was quite fun. And later on, think Alinta means more than just a bistro.
Susan Su (54:21)
you
Matthew Lu (54:28)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Susan Su (54:31)
Yeah.
Tina (54:39)
brand, we actually designed our own IP which is a Corolla. My design and I designed a Corolla which is really cute. really? yeah. We made a bunch of... So we made some merchandising around the IP like the mug with the Corolla look.
Matthew Lu (54:43)
Mm-hmm.
He's on my laptop right now. I put all the stickers on my laptop. It's very cute.
Susan Su (54:52)
⁓
Alright, I gotta see some of these stickers next time.
Tina (55:04)
like the stickers, like the fan, mini fan. And we got it. Yes, Tata.
Matthew Lu (55:08)
fans yeah i have yeah i have some of those too does he have a name or her
Susan Su (55:09)
and see ya.
Matthew Lu (55:16)
cute cute
Susan Su (55:16)
Tata, Alinta, I see. Cute.
Tina (55:20)
Also,
we actually have the fourth sound, the tā in Chinese is the tā shuì, tā làng de tā.
Susan Su (55:24)
⁓ ta ta. Okay.
⁓
okay, okay.
Tina (55:33)
The reason why is we've designed a Corolla in ⁓ surfing, right? You see that, So it's like we tried to build this Tata's character, this Corolla's character into an Aussie spirit. know, like, maybe act very chill, wearing sunglasses, surfing, tan, like, dressed very casually. Like, yeah, like, so we tried to build him after an Aussie.
Susan Su (55:33)
Cute.
Matthew Lu (55:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Susan Su (55:41)
Mmm.
Matthew Lu (55:49)
Gotcha.
Susan Su (55:51)
Hahaha
Tina (56:00)
spirits like what represents the Australian culture. Yeah, so it's Tata like he's very like energetic. He loves outdoor activities. He just loves choi on the beach, drinks all the time, stuff like that. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (56:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, can koalas drink? I'm just kidding.
Susan Su (56:18)
They can.
Okay. And yeah, no, that's that's super cute. And just on the topic of like, I guess, like the the job and the ventral, like the the swag for your restaurant and how your restaurant is like gaining like, like gaining some fame on like the Chinese social media and stuff. I wanted to share about the ⁓ the time when your your first love came walked in because he saw
he read about your restaurant on the red note.
Tina (56:43)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that's... I mean like, because I definitely post something on the little rep, right? So about my restaurants, you know, I own restaurants, stuff like that. So it's a bit like movie scene. So one night, was walking in my restaurant at a bar. I was like busy a little bit with my stuff. There's one guy wearing glasses. He walked in and he just walked right to the bar. I looked at him like for 15 seconds. Whoa, that's the guy I went to Australia with.
That's a good idea, I'll start it.
Matthew Lu (57:11)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (57:12)
The start of everything.
Tina (57:14)
Yeah, we're like, we, I don't really have any social media contacts with him. We, think, I'm pretty sure we stopped talking or we don't contact each other for more than 10 years. So I think more than 10 years around. Yeah. He didn't change that much. So, so I can tell that's him. But again, I wasn't that sure because he's just changed a little bit. But so I was like, are you, you are you
Matthew Lu (57:25)
10 years, wow.
man.
Susan Su (57:31)
Ha
Tina (57:39)
and he was like, yeah, yeah, I was like, oh, I'm like, how do you know this place? He's like, oh, you know, I came back to Shanghai for holiday.
Matthew Lu (57:40)
Yeah.
Tina (57:50)
And somehow I got like when I scored the feed, I saw you open your restaurant. So I'm thinking I probably check. I'm like, oh, shit, he definitely like stalk me for so long. He's definitely like, you just came back to Shanghai and then you knew it. But anyway, I like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, I open a restaurant. So and then he ordered a glass of wine. So he sit outdoor because we've got an outdoor area.
Matthew Lu (57:57)
you
Susan Su (58:02)
The user's
Matthew Lu (58:02)
Ha ha.
Tina (58:16)
So I finished the... I was making drinks for other clients. So I finished the drink, I go out and chat with him for about 15 minutes. Because we're getting busy really quickly, so I couldn't chat like chat more. But you I was like, were you still living in Australia? I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we talked a little bit about life. But it feels kind of weird. Like if you think back, it's just he's probably the least...
Matthew Lu (58:36)
Mmm.
Tina (58:42)
person I would expect to see in my restaurant. I have expected see Jackson Wang came in one day, but I never thought my first love will come in one day. So, yeah, so he was like, you know, I think you are doing great. And he knew that I was seeing food business or I was love food. So it's all congratulations. You know, one day you actually opened your own restaurant, things like that.
Matthew Lu (58:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tina (59:06)
And yeah, I also asked him, what are you doing lately? Blah, blah, But it was funny that at the end, because he has to go to somewhere else, he just came in for say hi. And I was getting busy really quickly. So there was one moment because he came to the bar to the checkout to pay for the bill, right? My staff was there too. So I thought that was a bit awkward. But I had this
Matthew Lu (59:11)
Mm-hmm.
Uh-huh.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-mm.
Tina (59:34)
this like struggle in my mind, should I maybe say, should we like exchange WeChat? Chris, we don't have each other's WeChat. He didn't mention it. He didn't mention it. And I didn't mention it. So it's like, he's out. And then he's just out of my life. So he walks in my life after 10 years or something for 15 minutes. And then 15 minutes later, he walks out of my life. And then it just like, so it's just really weird.
Matthew Lu (59:41)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like
a movie.
Tina (1:00:01)
Maybe I talked to my friends about it. They were like, oh, what's going on? Do you guys like, you know, just hitting up? said, no, no, there's nothing else. It's just, that's it. Like, yeah. He divorced, by the way. I only knew that with that conversation. So he divorced with me. I'm like, oh, okay. I never get married. But if we divorce, we are even like, we're on the same ship. But yeah, that's just a funny story that happened in my restaurant.
Matthew Lu (1:00:17)
Uh-uh.
Yeah.
kind of like a very unexpected, like full circle moment, I guess, because it, you you, guess in the beginning, you went to Australia because of him. But then that began such a long journey, so many skills acquired, you know, knowledge, background experiences, and then bringing all the way to Alinta, where, from what I understand, you know, you're also kind of trying to bring
Tina (1:00:39)
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:00:53)
parts of the Australian culture and the lifestyle and the attitude to Shanghai kind of bridging the two parts of your experience through food and through, F and B. So that's really cool. And yeah, on the same note, like I'm kind of also interested in learning a little bit about kind of like how you see maybe the role of your restaurant or maybe like food and, you know, F and B in general.
in terms of like being a cultural bridge or, you know, being able to kind of connect the two sides of yourself. Like, is that something that you kind of think about a bit?
Tina (1:01:28)
Yeah, definitely. I think food business is actually people business. It's really about connecting people, only if you connect people with really delicious food and cook food. Yeah. I think when I, because when I used to work in Australia, I think
Matthew Lu (1:01:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, if it's bad, that's, ⁓ that's, that's the worst.
Tina (1:01:50)
any floor staff or like any service people or kitchen staff with their customers, they actually build long-term relationships. We have a lot of loyalty customers. know, once they go to your restaurant, they love the service, they love the environment, they love the vibe. They were always coming back. And most likely, they're always coming back ordering the same food.
Matthew Lu (1:02:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Tina (1:02:13)
we come back often, it's really easy for us to remember, let's say Jessica. Jessica loves to start with a glass of sparkling and then maybe order something light. And then after maybe half an hour later, she will order a glass of bread to go on with her bread meat, something like that. And maybe she her coffee with one spoon of sugar.
Matthew Lu (1:02:22)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Tina (1:02:38)
and one sip of milk. It's very detailed. You can ⁓ remember all your regular customers, like their habits, what they like, what they don't like, and they can chat a little bit about their life. That's most customers that I used to encounter with in Australia. While I think in Shanghai,
Matthew Lu (1:02:42)
Yeah, that's very specific.
Tina (1:02:57)
I mean, Shanghai just got too many restaurants, people got too many choices. also, I think the time frame is different. So I think customers nowadays are really...
I don't know if I could put it this way, think customers these days have no loyalty at all. Today they can like, I mean, like dine in your restaurant and next day they want to try something else. It's just how it is right now. I mean, even in Alinta, I also got a large number of expats customers or people from other states or like ABCs and stuff. But I can tell, I can still tell the difference. Like a lot of
Matthew Lu (1:03:19)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:03:35)
Aussie customers or lot of like foreign customers, they always came back and they always coming back with the same food they want, the same like drinking habits and stuff like that. So when I serve customers like that, reminds me of the old days when I work in Australia. It's very, it's very homey or family.
Matthew Lu (1:03:40)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, like a community. ⁓
Tina (1:03:59)
Yeah,
people are very nice. We chat a little bit. yeah, so it's I think that's one big difference between the clients. It's just a culture and habits. Yeah, I think secondly is I think
Matthew Lu (1:04:11)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:04:14)
Customers in Shanghai or in China. They more value like what Susan mentioned. Yes. It's the dishes very photo ⁓ So for those yeah, so actually I did a lot of changes for the clientele in China the I've the menu design because Matt has been here. He knows what our menu looks like ⁓ I have
Matthew Lu (1:04:23)
Yeah, something novel to post, right? And, you know, impress your friends.
Susan Su (1:04:23)
Photogenic, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (1:04:40)
Yeah, it's very... I haven't
seen something like that anywhere else, I'd say.
Tina (1:04:44)
Yeah,
I have upgraded my menu layout for four times since I opened in year and a half time. The very first menu was just very
a Melbourne look. It's very simple. just a white paper, white texture paper with just Chinese and English titles like what dishes. That's it. Very simple. But then I realized, I think people here, first of all, I think most Chinese people love to see the pictures of the dishes. They want to know what they're getting before they get it.
Matthew Lu (1:04:59)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Tina (1:05:17)
And then secondly, if you just mention a very simple the name of the dish or even you put some like the most ingredients written on, but they still will ask a lot of questions. So the second version I did still with no picture, I put more like graphic designs on the whole menu. It's a A4 size menu, paper look.
Matthew Lu (1:05:36)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:05:40)
So after that, find our sales figure have increased by 5%. The overall spending has been increased.
Matthew Lu (1:05:46)
Wow.
Tina (1:05:48)
And then later on, I just decided I need to put pictures of all the dishes. And I'm sorry to say, with all the dishes we post, like all the pictures, even now, every dishes we serve look exactly the same as the picture we take. So we have pretty high standard of presentation SOP to make that happen.
Matthew Lu (1:05:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:06:09)
⁓ Anyway, now the menu layout is like different cards, so we put different like, 明星片 style. I don't know how to say it, but I manuals. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:06:16)
Yeah.
Like a collection, kind of like
Susan Su (1:06:22)
⁓
Matthew Lu (1:06:24)
a, my
Susan Su (1:06:25)
I'll need to...
Matthew Lu (1:06:25)
first thought is like, it's like a collection of Pokemon cards, but every card is like some interesting dish or drink. ⁓ And the names I could see. Yeah.
Tina (1:06:28)
Come on then.
Susan Su (1:06:29)
Okay.
Tina (1:06:33)
Yeah. ⁓
Susan Su (1:06:33)
Okay, I'll need to see some photos. I'll need to look this up after.
Tina (1:06:37)
Yeah, I can
show it later. can show it later. Yeah, but also the reason why I'm doing it, I think it's pretty smart. Yeah, I just call myself smart. But I think it's pretty smart because it's really easy for me to change every single dish. I don't need to reprint the whole thing. If I just change one dish, I can just grab that little card out and I put a new dish in. That's it. So yeah. But I mean,
Susan Su (1:06:46)
you
Matthew Lu (1:06:51)
Yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah.
Tina (1:07:01)
The whole menu itself was involved a lot of handcraft work. But that's one thing after that it becomes really easy. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:07:07)
Mmm.
Tina (1:07:10)
So, I mean, after we changing that menu, customers love it. Every time I hear customers coming in and say, oh my God, this menu is so different, this menu is so cute, they can take pictures. I'm pretty happy. And also the average spending have increased significantly. At the very first, I think our average spending was about 200 per person.
Matthew Lu (1:07:10)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Okay.
Tina (1:07:34)
the data and now it's 300 per person. So for 100 difference, it's actually quite big difference. Yeah. I think the menu changing thing is pretty successful. Yeah. I mean, you just have to adapt to customers, to the culture right now. ⁓
Matthew Lu (1:07:43)
Yeah, for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:07:56)
So I think we did a lot of adaptions like things like we designed our own glasses, our own menu, our own like we use whiskey bottles to make the new lamp and customers love it. And the wine list and the posters. Yeah. So those are the things that for me that we don't really spend extra money. But then
Matthew Lu (1:08:08)
Mm hmm. Yeah. And the posters right on the walls.
Susan Su (1:08:09)
you
Alright.
Tina (1:08:20)
Customers are willing to take photos themselves so they're more likely they were posted on social media for us. So it becomes a free word of mouth to promote our restaurant instead of me spending a lot of on marketing and promotions and stuff.
Susan Su (1:08:36)
Yeah. All right. Next time I'm in Shanghai, definitely hitting y'all up. Yeah, no, I love the creative concepts. too, I enjoy using soju bottles as flower vases, wine bottles. I just save it all, put stuff in it. It's definitely a nice aesthetic. Yeah. So I guess just kind of wrapping up just your journey here, what...
Matthew Lu (1:08:36)
organic.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (1:09:01)
What has been like, the biggest takeaway so far, of your just like your, your adventures from culinary school to Australia, China, all the way to Olinta, like what's, what's been that takeaway there? Any, any advice for people coming along?
Tina (1:09:16)
I think I would describe myself as rational, optimistic. I always look at the brighter side of the future. Even sometimes, or most of the don't know what the is. But think the attitude is really important. If you think about something,
Matthew Lu (1:09:24)
Mm.
Susan Su (1:09:40)
you
Tina (1:09:40)
If it's constantly on your mind, think you should just do it. Whether it's move to a new place or whether it's changing career, whether you just want to take a break or you want something new or you want to do something out of your mind. think if it's constantly on your mind, you should just do it. You will never regret it. Yes, like Alinta is being, I mean, honestly, to be very, very honest, Alinta has been the most challenging thing I've ever.
Matthew Lu (1:09:44)
for sure.
Preach.
Tina (1:10:06)
did in my life so far.
too challenging because it's actually the very first time I've been my own boss. I did a lot of startups, right? I do have entrepreneurship, do have startup experience, but all of those past experience I was doing with someone else. I'm not the key person, I'm not a final decision maker. I'm just a co-partner, a co-founder. But with Alinta, it's 100%. Even I have partners, but it's actually 100 % my own business.
Matthew Lu (1:10:28)
Mm.
Tina (1:10:35)
Like I have to make all the single decisions myself and I'm also responsible for all the single decisions and It's been very stressful a lot of challenging a lot of people problems a lot of it's just a lot but I Keep telling friend my friends. That's also one thing I've never ever regret in my life Yeah, so I don't know
Matthew Lu (1:10:36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:10:59)
Honestly, I don't know where Alinta is going to because to be honest, the environment right now is very competitive. It's not great. The sales figures has been dropped a lot recently. I mean, maybe just not me, but it's the whole industry. overall, think it's a very great adventure that I've done in my life because it's something that's in my own. think.
Matthew Lu (1:11:12)
Makes sense.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:11:21)
Because I'm not being a mom or I'm not married. I don't have a kid but I think to have the ownership of something that's 100 % yours I think is very important Anyone's life. I think if there's any advice I will give I think anyone should have something that's 100 % yours like ownership of a small business or
Matthew Lu (1:11:31)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:11:43)
You know, even just a hobby where you can 100 % own it, you 100 % enjoy it. You can have the flow while you're doing it. I think it's worth it. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:11:51)
Awesome. And so when you think about the future, however you'd like to kind of define that near future or next 10, 20 years even, what would you say are some of the aspects that kind of go into your vision or your dream for the future? Like how, where do you want to go from here?
Tina (1:12:10)
I think as challenging as it is, I still love food and beverage business very well. So I do hope in the next five years time at least, I'm building a bigger business. ⁓ We'll have a few different restaurants or different concepts of.
Matthew Lu (1:12:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:12:28)
the business, but I wouldn't set a specific goal at the moment because I think it could be anything. Maybe one day become a celebrity food show chef again. I don't know. It just can't be I have more restaurants, so it could be a high-f...
Matthew Lu (1:12:41)
Yeah.
Tina (1:12:46)
are like a corporate with different line of restaurants, cafes, bars and stuff like that. I think instead of mention how many restaurants or the exact numbers I want to have, I will say I just want to excel in the food and business more.
Matthew Lu (1:12:52)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:13:04)
I want to be more expert in the industry and I'm still learning. I'm still reflecting a lot. I'm still a baby, I think, in this industry. think I'm a fast learner. I can do better and in the future I hope I can help more people who's...
Matthew Lu (1:13:04)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Tina (1:13:23)
passionate about this industry, whether I will help them build their own brand or give them a job. don't know. I just feel like I'm more to help others. With myself, think coming back to China is one of the greatest decision I've ever made.
Matthew Lu (1:13:30)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:13:41)
Going
to Australia is also one of the greatest decisions I made. So I think I'm pretty lucky that I have these two countries or two places I could live. Like, you know, I can always go back to Australia. I can always stay in China. I can always go somewhere else. So I think it's the...
mentality I've built up that I can do anything if I really want to do and there should be no limitations and if you think bright side I think great things always coming along but if you think the other best things then bad energy will follow so it's a bit superstition but I think that's how I think yeah a lot of attraction exactly yes so
Matthew Lu (1:14:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. The law of attraction, I guess that's the.
Tina (1:14:25)
always try to look the bright side of the life and I think just living no regrets that's all.
Susan Su (1:14:33)
Great advice. All right. So now, guess just wrapping up our conversation then, thank you so much for sharing your journey. mean, this was fascinating. I'm also a foodie, so I love just hearing about your creativity with this and how you got to where you are. And yeah, I will definitely be hitting you all up when I'm in Shanghai next time.
Tina (1:14:34)
Thank you.
Yes, for sure.
Susan Su (1:14:59)
So
Matthew Lu (1:14:59)
For
sure.
Susan Su (1:15:00)
a cool little thing we like to have our guests do at ⁓ the end of the session is to give a recommendation, but to pick your own category and give your recommendation in that category. And Matt and I will have to match you on the spot. yeah, so Tina, you give you guys gave you some time for this. So what is your category and what is your recommendation?
Tina (1:15:21)
I think I would pick a category of lifestyle wear. I want to recommend a clothing brand if it's okay. I just have to recommend my absolute favorite active wear brand from the past maybe half a year. The name of the brand is called Particle Fever.
Susan Su (1:15:31)
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:15:41)
Mm-hmm.
Tina (1:15:44)
It's a Chinese brand. So it's like Lululemon. You can imagine it's a Chinese version of Lululemon. But there's no scene. They do their own design, their own philosophy, and their own very good materials. So think that their clothing is the best I have ever worn so far. Yeah, I think that's it.
Matthew Lu (1:15:44)
interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wow, okay. praise.
Susan Su (1:16:07)
Wow, that's a
big compliment.
Tina (1:16:09)
I I've basically bought like over 15 pieces in three months time, so I think that's a lot. I don't even go to gym or yoga that much, right? I just love to buy in the closest. It's like sportswear and leggings and stuff. I think ever since I started with this brand, I don't wear my lululemon anymore and I don't check any of the items. So that's good.
Matthew Lu (1:16:15)
Wow, okay.
Susan Su (1:16:16)
Same.
Matthew Lu (1:16:23)
man.
Susan Su (1:16:31)
Wow. How do you say it again?
Can you repeat the name? Particle fever?
Tina (1:16:36)
Particle Fever. Particle
P-A-R-T-I-C-L-E. Particle Fever. It's a weird name. It's a weird name. You're gonna love it. You're gonna love it. I've recommended it to so many of my friends. They got a guys wear as well, so Matt, you can check it out.
Matthew Lu (1:16:44)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Susan Su (1:16:45)
Particle fever. Wow. Okay, I'm gonna look this up. You're giving them...
Matthew Lu (1:16:58)
Okay. Nice.
Susan Su (1:16:59)
Can you get this in the US? Or is it a Taobao thing?
Tina (1:17:02)
They have their own website but they definitely on Taobao and they do have lot of physical
I just want to express a bit more because I think Particle Fever is another very vivid example of if you're doing your products right, your customers will just spread the word for you. They did nothing to me. They didn't like seeding me anything. I was seeding by Lululemon, by Nike and stuff. I love them, but I don't really buy them anymore.
Matthew Lu (1:17:13)
Mmm.
Tina (1:17:25)
But Particle Fever has nothing to me. They don't give me one single discount. But because I just think their design, their service is really good, so I keep buying them. And then it keeps giving me surprises. So now I just recommend to everyone.
Susan Su (1:17:40)
So now what is your what is your recommendation, Matt? I'm I'm still thinking I. Apparel lifestyle, OK.
Matthew Lu (1:17:45)
so I'm the kind of guy who
will like buy a bunch of clothes on, ⁓ Uniqlo. And then sometimes I'll splurge a little bit for Lululemon and I'll just wear it for like a really long time until, until you cannot wear it anymore. so I don't shop that much. but something that I do, I think, make purchases more frequently are.
Tina (1:17:50)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (1:17:51)
meet me too.
Matthew Lu (1:18:07)
for shoes. And one of the reasons for that is because my feet are completely flat. Like I have zero arch. It's like a plank of wood. And yeah, so as a result, I can't really like wear. I can't just like go to a store and like pick out a pair of shoes that I think look cool, because it might be totally like, you know, destructive for my knees and my feet.
Tina (1:18:14)
⁓
Wow.
Matthew Lu (1:18:33)
So I have to be quite particular with kind of the quality and the build of the shoes that I wear. And so recently I've been getting into a brand that's very popular, I think in China, it's called Salomon. Salomon. Salomon. Yeah. So yeah, they have a lot of shoes, models that are friendly to people like me and I appreciate it.
Tina (1:18:47)
They are very professional on their spots where they
Matthew Lu (1:18:58)
Pretty lightweight, good support. And I'm someone who likes to walk around a lot. Sometimes without a destination. just like walking, you know, listening to something or observing my surroundings. So, you know, I walk maybe like 15 to 20,000 steps every day. And ⁓ these shoes, they're pretty good. They don't wear that easily. And yeah. ⁓
If anyone listening to this also has extremely flat feet, go check out Salomon. You won't be disappointed. That's my take.
Susan Su (1:19:30)
Yeah, I also, I think I have flat feet too. I should take a look. I've been, my feet have been hurting. But yeah, I also, I'm definitely a Uniqlo person. I think in China, I got like 80 % of my clothes in Uniqlo. Like especially the heat tech. like I would just, and then when I lived in Shenzhen, I lived near so many malls and they all had Uniqlo. So whenever I was like just walking around, I would just like, okay, what's in Uniqlo today?
Matthew Lu (1:19:45)
So cheap.
Susan Su (1:19:56)
What's on sale today.
Matthew Lu (1:19:58)
Yeah, same.
actually when I sometimes when I go on like business trips, I won't like pack many clothes and then I'll just go to like Uniqlo and pick up some clothes if I need them. And so it's like so cheap, convenient.
Susan Su (1:20:10)
reliable. Yeah.
Yeah. But I don't want my rec to be a unique low even though it's great. So I, I don't have like a lifestyle brand or apparel that I really swear by per se. But let's see, I've, recently switched running shoes because I'm like, trying to train for the half now that I'm back in Cambridge. So I'm running a lot more and
Matthew Lu (1:20:34)
Nice.
Susan Su (1:20:35)
Yeah, so I switched from, I usually wear Nikes. I switched to Brooks, which like were recommended by some people and yeah, I think they've been working well so far. Good for long mileage is my, like my, arches of my feet don't hurt as much. So yeah, Brooks running shoes. Pretty solid. I've never heard of it either, but then I was just like, what are some alternatives? Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:20:51)
Cool, I've never heard of it. So...
Your favorite runner's favorite running shoe, maybe.
Susan Su (1:21:00)
Yeah, maybe. yeah, so far so good. We'll see how they hold up.
Matthew Lu (1:21:04)
That's a wrap on today's episode of Liminal Space, where we navigate the thresholds of culture, identity, and experience. If our conversation resonated with you, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share your own story with us. We'd love to hear what you've discovered in the spaces in between. Join us next time as we continue to explore what it means to live in the liminal. See ya!
Susan Su (1:21:26)
Bye bye.
Tina (1:21:26)
Thank you.
Matthew Lu (1:21:27)
Bye bye!
