From Chinese Rock Star to Cross-Cultural Storyteller: Henry Kong on Music, Identity, and Cultural Exchange
Matthew Lu (00:25)
Welcome to Liminal Space, where we explore the thresholds of identity, culture, and experience. I am Matt Lu one half of the hosting duo. Along with my friend Susan, we've created this podcast for those who find themselves navigating the spaces in between, whether it's between cultures, worlds, or ideas. Each episode, we delve into the rich complexity of modern Chinese stories as told by those who exist at its peripheries, diaspora voices,
third culture kids, and individuals who embody the bridge between China and the world, and between tradition and innovation. Step into liminal space with us, where we find meaning in the transitions, the gray areas, and the moments of becoming.
Susan Su (01:11)
Today we have the pleasure of inviting Henry Kong, a self-proclaimed washed up rock star, relentless music festival organizer, amateur chef, world traveler, and all around romantic individual. So yeah, welcome Henry. great to have you here with us and we're super excited to dive into your entire background. You have such an interesting story to tell
so, Henry, why don't you start off by maybe giving a quick blurb on just what you actually do, which is very, unusual, I would say. And yeah, and briefly how you got to this point, and then we can do a deeper dive on your journey.
Henry Kong (01:46)
Yeah, yeah.
Matthew Lu (01:46)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (01:52)
For sure, yeah, thanks Susan and thank you Matt for inviting me. I'm really happy to be here. Yeah, I'm really glad that I got this opportunity to share my story because I think it's, yeah, like Susan said, it's pretty unique. I haven't met a lot of people who are like me with the same background, same experience in China. So I'm a concert promoter now and I promote music festivals and...
Matthew Lu (01:57)
You're welcome.
Henry Kong (02:19)
international tours mainly in China, but we also did some tours for Chinese musicians back in the United States. And also I'm a consultant for indie bands and labels, record labels, artists, management companies for their market in China. So I have a lot of bands that are really interested in growing their fan base in China.
And so yeah, that's what I do mainly, working with artists, coming up with cool ideas that no one thought before.
Matthew Lu (02:50)
Yeah, that's fascinating You're the only one that I know who works in this area. And I know that you're always working with some interesting acts or on some pioneering projects, like the one that you told me about in the hometown of Confucius. what kind of, yeah, I mean, just as an example, like
Henry Kong (03:09)
Yes.
Matthew Lu (03:14)
What was the thoughtprocess there and what kind of vision do you have when you're thinking about putting together a festival that has a concept behind it?
Henry Kong (03:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, when I first got the opportunity to look at plans to put on a festival over there, was really a surprise for me because, you know, my last name is Kong and technically I'm the 75th descendant of Confucius. So being able to do a show over there is really huge just for me. And, you know, in the cultural world, you know, like the whole Eastern culture, the Confucius ideology.
Matthew Lu (03:42)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (03:55)
So I was really excited to combine the so-called traditional Chinese culture, the guófeng, and contemporary pop culture from the rest of the world. So that was something that I was really excited for. just being able to working with people in my background, but also combined with my international.
Matthew Lu (03:55)
Yep.
Henry Kong (04:18)
I think it was fun and really a huge thing for me that I'm really just passionate about.
Susan Su (04:26)
Thank you for sharing that. That sounds super fun for sure. And yeah, I kind of want to take a step back because like you mentioned, you have so much background and expertise in the music industry in China. And you actually started off as like a rock star in China. And so I wanted to go a little bit into your background and how you
got you where you are. So could you tell us a little bit more about growing up, your family, how you got into music and how and your, I guess your family's attitudes towards this more alternative space.
Henry Kong (05:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean it was really fun because like in the beginning like when I was when I was really young in Probably elementary school. I was never into music. So I would skip music class I would Do anything other than music because my cousin he was forced to learn piano when he was young because my aunt was a singer and keyboard player So, you know, they are the musician
Matthew Lu (05:27)
⁓ of course.
Henry Kong (05:31)
in our family. And like to me, it never occurred that I'll do something, anything actually related to music. But I got so into computer games back then and my mom thought, you know, that's just too much. Gotta get you away.
Matthew Lu (05:47)
Starcraft?
Henry Kong (05:49)
Yeah,
well no actually it was GTA and Resident Evil all those games so Anyways, I started learning to play guitar At first it was fingerstyle. So it was just me and my acoustic guitar and Then one day I watched this video I think of Green Day and that was the first time I started listening to pop-punk, know, new school pop-punk And I really got into that
Matthew Lu (05:55)
okay.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (06:15)
And not many years later, I think it was two years later, I started playing electric guitar and then had my own band in middle school. And that's how officially I got into the music industry, starting my own band. pretty much like everybody else, I wrote my first song for a girl and well, she was writing the lyrics, I wrote the song. So I thought, yeah, final.
After the song is done, we can actually, you know, maybe sing it together on the stage. I'll do something romantic, you know. That'll be, you know, the classic, yes, classic romantic story. Until the song is finished, she told me, yeah, my ex-boyfriend is gonna be so happy knowing that I wrote this song for him, you know. It was tragedy.
Matthew Lu (06:40)
Mmm.
So romantic.
Susan Su (07:01)
RIP.
Matthew Lu (07:02)
⁓ my gosh.
Henry Kong (07:02)
But then again, I
didn't quit though. I didn't quit. was like, yeah, I'll write out the stuff. So I wrote a bunch of other punk music that are really angry and started playing outside of school. Yeah, know, old school punk stuff, you know. I hate school, why I hate my teachers, you know, those kinds of stuff.
Matthew Lu (07:13)
Angry.
I hate
Susan Su (07:23)
Classic.
Matthew Lu (07:24)
the food in the cafeteria. It's disgusting. Yeah
Henry Kong (07:27)
Yes,
Susan Su (07:27)
You
Henry Kong (07:29)
yes
Susan Su (07:30)
Wow, so even circling back to the middle school band thing then, I know your parents encouraged your pursuit of music at first, so how did they react to this? Were they just chill with it? Because I do have trouble imagining Chinese parents, especially the parents in Beijing, where we're both from, to be just chill about their kids starting a rock band in middle school.
Henry Kong (07:47)
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (07:48)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (07:53)
That's pretty crazy. Like, how did they react?
Henry Kong (07:57)
Yeah, mean nowadays it's pretty common, know, like there are a lot of high school, middle school bands in Beijing nowadays, but back then when I was in school, it was pretty uncommon, yeah. But I think my family is always supportive for me playing music until they realized that was too much for them, you know, gotta drive me around, you know, playing for studios and stuff.
Matthew Lu (08:10)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (08:22)
buy new instruments, put out shows, you know. But all in all, I think they still think it's better than, you know, just sit at home, play computers.
Matthew Lu (08:26)
Yeah.
Susan Su (08:31)
True.
Matthew Lu (08:31)
Yeah, for sure.
And so, yeah, nowadays, like a lot of my students, they're involved in bands in high school. And I think there are like battle of the bands type events that connect like different young musicians and artists across high schools in China. So that's a thing. But from what I understand, like you
eventually became a touring musician. So a professional rock musician in high school. So like that's a big jump from, you know, I have a band with my middle school friends, right? Or I'm experimenting writing music. I play in like the local community center or at school. But from that to touring China as an actual band with like
tens of thousands or I don't know how many followers or fans you have, but yeah, like what the heck happened between middle school and high school? How were you able to become a professional like rock musician?
Henry Kong (09:35)
So in the last year of my middle school,
we joined this festival which eventually became New Seoul. Back then it was called New Seoul High School Festival. It's the first one at Macco Lab House that was in Shenzhen which now is already closed.
Matthew Lu (09:44)
Mm.
Henry Kong (09:53)
But back then it was a pretty famous venue and we had bands from I think eight different high schools in Beijing. I mean nowadays look at this kind of shows they're pretty common like every year in summer and winter you got them but back then there was just no place for high school bands to play on a professional setting you know like you can play at school you can play at other people's backyard but not at a professional venue.
Matthew Lu (09:54)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Henry Kong (10:20)
If you're a college band, then
Matthew Lu (10:21)
Yeah.
Henry Kong (10:21)
maybe a gas if you're really, you know, stand out from them. But like for a high school band, there was just no chance. So my buddy and I rented this venue and they started to it put together this show. And just after that, my friend went to America because she just graduated. And I decided that maybe I'll just take over. So in my first year of high school, I took over the festival, which essentially became the
most famous one because we had professional like we had actual like punk rock star in Beijing back then they were like so popular one of them is called Brain Failure and this band they they they got together pretty early in like late 1990s and they they were the biggest punk rock band in China they toured with Antifly
Matthew Lu (10:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (11:12)
2001 in America. And we got them to be our headliner for the show. And we had a lot of people came to the show, although the show lost money, and yes, my family helped. But it was a huge success that I actually got all the people in the industry to realize, okay, there are a bunch of high school kids are playing music, are playing original music, you know.
Matthew Lu (11:15)
Mm-hmm. I like the name.
Henry Kong (11:41)
and we don't even know them. And that's how I really got into it. Like everything from then became serious. The next year I put out this album called... Let the flag of rock race around all high schools, I guess. So that was the first album that... Yes, yes, I did, I did.
Matthew Lu (11:41)
Mmm.
Okay.
Okay
Mmm.
yeah, you gave me a copy. Yeah, I have the CD, but
no CD player.
Henry Kong (12:07)
People don't use city players nowadays. But yeah, that was the first album that I produced. I got all the bands who played on my show to submit one or two songs from their original pieces. And I put out this album and then it quickly became a great idea for me. Just like all the great minds before me. I was like, you know what?
before they're releasing I should do a tour. So I asked one of the band, we both released three songs in that album and then they were leaving for America but I was only know freshman in high school. So we decide okay that's your last summer in China. You guys want to do something crazy? They were like hell yeah let's do it. So we put together this tour it was seven days we played five cities
Matthew Lu (12:33)
Mmm.
Henry Kong (12:56)
With with the last one the sixth city being Beijing after the tour we played in Nanjing play Shanghai Wuhan Guangzhou and Xi'an for the last last stop and Yeah, it was really crazy because it was just six of us You know to me and my drummer and then four of them So they're like their lead singer had to play bass for my band so that we can play otherwise we're missing the bass
Matthew Lu (13:01)
Mm.
Wow.
I'm
Henry Kong (13:23)
But yeah, it was a pretty crazy tour. Yeah, I borrowed him. So he had to play a full show for two bands. But I guess that was pretty common back then. Even in foreign America, in the early times you see like among the big four, Metallica, Macbeth, they all do the same thing. And ⁓ yeah, every city we played, we would have a local high school band who had
Matthew Lu (13:24)
borrow him.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, versatile.
Henry Kong (13:51)
you know, have their original songs to join and play with us or a local famous punk rock band to join us. And I remember in Shanghai, we almost got this band called PROM. They are a melodic death metal band, but their contact, like I called their guitar player, their guitar player has now become a super idol in China.
Matthew Lu (13:59)
Mmm.
Henry Kong (14:16)
Timmy Xu, Xu Weizhou. He's like, yeah, he was the lead guitar player. Yeah, he's born and raised in Shanghai. So I still, he's super idol. Yes.
Matthew Lu (14:16)
Mm-hmm. Really? What?
Like he's like an idol now, like a C-pop idol. Like one of the
really beautiful, handsome, dancing guys. interesting. Wow. Big career change. ⁓
Henry Kong (14:30)
Yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly, yeah.
Susan Su (14:35)
Quite
a jump from Brock.
Matthew Lu (14:37)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (14:38)
But yeah, and I remember the highest sale that we did in that tour was like in Wuhan. We had like 200 tickets. That was it. But you know, it was fun. It was quite an experience. Seven days, all filled with train trips.
Matthew Lu (14:49)
So what?
Henry Kong (14:55)
alcohol and all the fun things music.
Matthew Lu (14:58)
Yeah. So that's really fascinating. And, especially in contrast with my childhood, my high school experience and probably Susan's, which is more similar to mine. we grew up in suburban areas in the U S and there's not a whole lot to do. we were probably more, uh, in the traditional molds of
Susan Su (14:59)
Thanks
Matthew Lu (15:21)
know, activities and hobbies and things to do outside of school that, Asian American parents approve of and whatnot. ⁓ And yeah, I just think it's so interesting that at the same age, like you guys were on tour and well, you're drinking and arranging everything and doing these performances, making money, meeting other people from the industry.
Susan Su (15:29)
Mm.
Matthew Lu (15:46)
and, and while I was like in McDonald's with my friends, like, seeing who could eat the most chicken nuggets, do you think that experience, these types of experiences in your high school, career, did they, prepare you for success later on in your life in any surprising ways, or did they kind of push you to grow up faster?
Henry Kong (16:08)
I think those experiences from my high school time definitely got me more focused on what I actually want to do with my life. A lot of people are kind of unsure about themselves during college, but I was already over that time in high school because I'm like super sure and confident.
Matthew Lu (16:20)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Henry Kong (16:38)
with what I'm going to do in the future. And of course, I've met with lot of difficulties and challenges in the later time. But I think it was never, it just never occurred to me, okay, I was at a wrong direction. I'm probably going to do something else, you know, maybe go into finance. But yeah, I had a lot of like,
Matthew Lu (16:56)
Hmm. Hehehehe. Hell no.
Susan Su (16:57)
you
Henry Kong (17:01)
The stories from the tour, for example, are just me being a rock star. But after I came back to Beijing, we had this whole releasing party. Because it was in Beijing, it was in my hometown, so we had more bands. We had literally got eight bands to play at that show. They were all high school bands. Well, except for one, I think. One or two, they're from college. So...
Here's a fun story of how I cracked down the formation of early union. Learned from the great capitalist in America. I had a friend who's a drummer in another band called me the day before the show. He's like, okay, Henry, you gotta know this, okay? But you can't say you heard it from me. There's this other band.
Matthew Lu (17:34)
No.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (17:53)
who are trying to do a rebellion against you about not going to the show tomorrow. Because they were thinking they were paid unfair. They wanted the box office, the profits, to be split evenly between the bands. But that was just not gonna be that. Some band can get like 500 people, but you're only taking in 50 tickets. So it's not gonna be the same.
Matthew Lu (17:59)
Okay.
I see. Yeah.
Right.
It doesn't make
sense, right?
Henry Kong (18:19)
We
paid the professional bands at their market value and then the rest we spent is split evenly among ourselves. So I heard the story. I found out who was starting this whole thing. I called everyone else other than him. I was like, okay, I'll raise your pay for another 500 Chinese Yuan in the term that
Matthew Lu (18:43)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (18:44)
You don't talk to him anymore. And everybody agreed. And then I caught him last. I was like, okay, you guys, you guys, I heard what happened. You can't play. You can't play the show tomorrow. But you know what? Everyone else is gonna play. They're also getting a raise. So you still will come to the show, you know? You still will come to the show, but you have to buy a ticket. And it turns out they actually came to the show, bought two tickets. So here, extra revenue.
Susan Su (18:46)
Wow.
Matthew Lu (18:46)
Nice
Ooooo
Susan Su (19:13)
Wow.
Matthew Lu (19:13)
Mmm, yeah.
Susan Su (19:14)
That's a cool story. also like, yeah, think, yeah, you probably gained a lot of soft skills from these. I can't imagine a typical high school student doing this. Like I can't imagine myself as a high schooler just like calling up a bunch of different bands and negotiating deals or whatever. Yeah. Like I would be at Wendy's with my friends or something like more like what Matt described. So yeah, no. ⁓
Matthew Lu (19:14)
and smart.
No way.
engineering club maybe.
Susan Su (19:43)
engineering club. Yeah, yeah. Can I negotiate like this extra screw from from you? No. But yeah, Thanks for the thanks for a story. We're always down to hear hear more of these. So I'm I'm also just really curious because imagine like, this was probably like the golden age of the Beijing underground, the alternative rock scene. Because I know a lot of these live houses sadly are having
Henry Kong (19:45)
You
Matthew Lu (19:56)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (20:07)
been closed and a lot of people have left the scene. But what was it like back then in terms of just the vibe, the people you met, the perspectives you were able to gain by being there?
Matthew Lu (20:13)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (20:24)
I think I was like back then was the end of what I would call golden era of Beijing's indie music scene because nowadays pretty much like how it is in America the Live the show venues are pretty much chained up. So you have House of Blues all across America You know, they don't they don't they don't host like small indie shows But now but back then, you know
Matthew Lu (20:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Henry Kong (20:48)
it was pretty much everybody was independent. So each venue got their own sort of specific niche, you know, like this venue is for punk, that venue is for metal, and then you go to those places, you're gonna see people who are at the bar also aligned with the scene. And back then, that was before all the famous bands nowadays, you know.
Matthew Lu (20:57)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Henry Kong (21:12)
got big through the show, the big band. That was before they were actually super, became super commercial. And those people are pretty chill to hang out with. They were also really nice. They really want to help the new generation in the music scene.
Matthew Lu (21:20)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (21:30)
So yeah, that was definitely, I would say the end of Golden Era.
Matthew Lu (21:35)
Oh, I just had a follow up question about that because you mentioned like the big band and it's like this reality variety show program in China that got pretty popular the past few years, kind of putting a spotlight on a lot of these smaller bands in the Chinese rock scene and also older bands, kind of bringing them to
the forefront in terms of like a mainstream Chinese audience of all ages. I really enjoyed the show, it was great that the show could give these people more exposure because some of these groups, maybe previously, weren't very financially, successful, I suppose. And maybe they still had to struggle a little bit to make, make ends meet. But after.
kind of the phenomenon of the show, it popularized like rock for a mainstream Chinese audience. Seems like there are a lot more commercial opportunities, a lot more potential for, different companies to really invest in rock acts and rock artists. So how do you see like the kind of tension between, more commercialization, more exposure means that
know people who choose to do this kind of music can maybe get a better standard of living with this job versus like, there are going to be a lot more people having a say from a corporate level of what you can or can't do or what types of concepts or sounds or
or themes you should do your music around. is it overall good to have more exposure or has it destroyed the initial purity of the rock spirit?
Henry Kong (23:18)
I would say overall it's definitely good to have more exposure for smaller bands, for indie bands. But definitely the corporate level of management are sort of killing the idea of being independent, know, the creative side of everything. But I think the invisible hand...
is trying to find a balance in between and the market is adjusting accordingly.
Matthew Lu (23:44)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (23:44)
you
Matthew Lu (23:47)
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.
Susan Su (23:48)
Interesting. And I guess on a similar tangent, you mentioned that your time there during high school, your high school days, I was kind of like the end of the golden era of indie music in China. I'm curious what caused this end? Like what happened? What changed after?
Henry Kong (24:05)
Hmm.
I would say with that show of course and the growing market of live music industry.
Many people who were only spiritual leaders in this market are trying to become financial leaders, which I don't really blame them. I was just reading David Geffen's book and a successful entertainment industry leader should make a lot of money.
Matthew Lu (24:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (24:35)
think they're still trying to find their way just to navigate between the creative side of story and the finance world and the corporate world.
Matthew Lu (24:45)
Yeah.
Susan Su (24:45)
Gotcha, gotcha.
Henry Kong (24:47)
you
Matthew Lu (24:48)
Yeah. So
when you, think about your own role as a rock musician and when you went to college, did you decide to also study something relating to music management or business?
Henry Kong (25:03)
The first year I did...
entry level business. It was a pre business class right in order to get into college school of business, which is Definitely one of the top ten In the country. Yeah, it's pretty hard. So it required all B plus I think so I was trying to get into that school for entrepreneurship major and Here's a fun story. I picked a class
Matthew Lu (25:10)
Mm-hmm.
It's really hard, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (25:30)
called a dinosaur or something because I was like you know I love Jurassic Park and and and you know I'm really familiar with all kinds of dinosaurs I was a huge fan of the movie
Matthew Lu (25:33)
Okay
Wait, I did not
know that. I did not know that. That's the first time I've... Really? I've no- I-
Henry Kong (25:45)
I'm pretty sure I told you this story. That was the first class that
I got to withdraw.
Matthew Lu (25:52)
⁓
Henry Kong (25:53)
Because
in the second week of the class, I realized I only know the dinosaur's name in Chinese. So seeing all the sorus, I was like, what are those?
Susan Su (26:01)
shoot.
Matthew Lu (26:01)
⁓
man.
Henry Kong (26:09)
I couldn't do my midterm exam, you know, I was like, I gotta withdraw this class, otherwise he'll, you my GPA. So I had a W on my transcript, so I pretty much said goodbye to Cowley School of Business. But which they, that was the opportunity that got me into arts management. My mom and my dad, they don't really speak English that well, so.
Susan Su (26:09)
Yeah, that.
Matthew Lu (26:15)
my goodness.
⁓ man. man. I see.
Mmm.
Hmm.
Henry Kong (26:37)
I changed my major without telling them. And then it was a huge fight between us. But you know, what's done is done.
Matthew Lu (26:41)
you're like, it's the same thing.
Susan Su (26:43)
Wow.
Matthew Lu (26:43)
So they really wanted you
Henry Kong (26:44)
And that actually got me thinking though.
I was just saying that really got me thinking that like choosing your own thing like the choice that I had was the biggest luxury that I had.
Matthew Lu (26:56)
Yeah, for sure. So they would have preferred you to choose like a business administration or entrepreneurship kind of direction. ⁓
Henry Kong (27:08)
maybe management
or accounting or marketing something like that.
Matthew Lu (27:13)
Okay Gotcha, and so it's like you moved to art moved over to like arts management What like what is that? I mean, that's also not a super commonly found major
Henry Kong (27:13)
hmm, definitely.
Matthew Lu (27:28)
I think in colleges. What did you learn in this area?
Henry Kong (27:31)
Well, our majors basically split into two directions. One is towards arts, so you know, fine art, you got a gallery stuff, museum stuff, and auctions for arts. And the other direction was music, which is the one that I chose.
Matthew Lu (27:42)
Mmm. Okay.
I see.
Susan Su (27:50)
Gotcha.
Yeah, so it's good that you were able to continue your passion for music into college. And you had a lot of conviction as a high schooler, like you knew exactly what you wanted to do in college, you knew you were going to the States. And so kind of circling back to that transition then, what made you like so certain you wanted to go to school in the States?
And how did your rock band experience actually help with that? Did you write about that on your college apps? Did that remain a part of your life when you went to the States?
Matthew Lu (28:23)
Yeah.
Henry Kong (28:28)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. think that story of me being a rock star and a promoter definitely made my application stand out. And I remember I also applied to a school called Bryant University that's in Rhode Island, I think. Their mission officer came to Beijing, came to my school.
Susan Su (28:45)
We lose him.
Matthew Lu (28:48)
Yeah, that was okay.
Henry Kong (28:54)
And I was telling her the story of me being a band and then she said, oh, we got this application. I think also from Beijing that, you know, he's a high school rock star and then, you know, blah, blah, same thing. And then I was like, yeah, that's probably my application. But yeah, eventually I choose IU and like going to America was not a definite thing for me.
Matthew Lu (29:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Henry Kong (29:23)
when I was really young, you know. But my grandparents really wanted me to go to college over there. And that was kind of, I guess that was kind of a deal they made with my parents that me and my cousin had to go to US for college.
Matthew Lu (29:39)
Hmm.
Susan Su (29:40)
Interesting. Wow. So then what became of your high school band and your high school fame? Like your band, it's called Watermelon Can. and I think you mentioned before that your bandmates, they were your high school classmates. So how did you guys how did things end up when you all had to go to to college and also your fan base? I'm curious about that too.
Henry Kong (30:04)
I mean,
we didn't really stop playing. Every year I would come back in winter and in summer and we would play shows, either in venues or at festivals, you know, so we kept our prices going. And besides that, I think pretty much all my bandmates are in America at the same time. So it was pretty easy for us just to keep that going, but not...
Susan Su (30:12)
Okay.
Matthew Lu (30:24)
Mmm.
Henry Kong (30:28)
not really like trying to become a popular rock star again.
Matthew Lu (30:33)
So you weren't really focused on expanding or growing your following, but just kind of maintaining it while you had to balance like school, right? Or university and other things.
Susan Su (30:33)
Gotcha.
Henry Kong (30:39)
Yeah.
Yeah, we just thought that was part
of our life already, you know, we just gotta keep playing
Matthew Lu (30:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. So another thing that I'm really interested in, particularly about like this stage of your life was so you go from Beijing to Indiana University in Bloomington, which is in the Midwest. It's a college town, but, not super big urban kind of environment, right? The culture.
Culture, language, environment is totally different from what you're used to. And you're someone I know who is very open and adaptable, flexible. But I'm wondering like when you first made it out there, was it easy for you to kind of get used to life in Indiana as a Chinese international student? Or were there any challenges that you had to overcome in those first couple of years?
Henry Kong (31:36)
I mean, I felt like I was always.
the kid who are pretty much open to all kind of culture, know, because my family love to travel. My grandparents worked in the same area in the early time of China. And so I sort of, you know, inherited that as a ability or power, you know. But going to Bloomington was definitely a challenge for me, would say. Like, you know, growing up in Beijing,
Matthew Lu (31:44)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Henry Kong (32:03)
Even now I'm sitting on 19th floor in a building but you know the tallest building in Bloomington is pretty much 11-12 stories high that was it. It was quite a challenge for me but now looking back I will definitely say it was the best thing happened to me like actually being in America America America instead of you know LA, New York which I also love but
Matthew Lu (32:24)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah
Henry Kong (32:32)
I would
imagine if it's me living in New York for five years, probably I'll just hang out in Chinatown, K-town all the time with all the cool fancy Chinese kids. But Indiana definitely showed me what America really is. And I'm truly grateful for that experience, because you don't get that anymore.
Matthew Lu (32:41)
Mmm. Yeah, I feel you. Haha, yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, when you were in college, like you spent time with a lot of local students too, right? Along with international students. So you found like a balance, right? But like a lot of times I feel like international students find it really easy to fall into their comfort zones and just kind of try to keep to their own groups.
other people who have very similar backgrounds. I think it makes sense because like going to a foreign country for college, it can be quite overwhelming. And so it's kind of like the choice to go there is already bringing you outside of your comfort zone. So if I can't even like interact with people who are more similar to me, then it's like I'm totally alone and like
maybe overwhelmed at times. But I guess from your experience, because you were able to kind of integrate with both sides, what would you say to students who are studying abroad now, especially maybe Chinese students, about how to orient or approach your social life in the US?
Henry Kong (34:05)
Well, I would say first of all, nowadays Chinese students are getting better at making friends with local students. And ⁓ of course, there are still like a majority of people who are, I wouldn't say afraid, but like, you know, they don't know how to make friends with local students.
Matthew Lu (34:14)
Mmm.
Mm.
Henry Kong (34:28)
And for me, I would say the easiest way just to party with the new students. Like they're also new in college and you you traveled half of half the world around just, you know, to be in a fully new environment. They, some of them might, you know, haven't left their state. So definitely see more like the Chinese students who have seen more stuff.
Matthew Lu (34:34)
Yeah.
Mm.
Henry Kong (34:53)
So they have more stuff to talk about and you know, would say like 99 % of American people that I met are friendly. So just be brave, party with them, drink with them, hang out with them and share stories from different perspective. Because I know like from my experience that all my American friends are also pretty interested in how I grew up, what my experience are.
Matthew Lu (35:02)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (35:19)
as well as I'm interested in theirs. So sharing that stories from both sides, different perspectives really bounded us to become better friends.
Matthew Lu (35:29)
Gotcha. Yeah. And seems like nowadays there are these other voices, that say, you know, if, if you're studying abroad, like it's totally fine to just keep to yourself and to just hang out with, you know, international students or people with similar backgrounds. Like there's nothing wrong with that. and I could kind of see that side of the argument too. So just
from your perspective then, like is it actually important for international students to befriend the locals or like to try to assimilate or integrate with the local scene? what's the value in that? As someone who did do that, what is the value and is it worth it or does it depend on the person?
Henry Kong (36:14)
I think it definitely depends. For me, think the most important question is that when you, like when you as a Chinese student in America or anywhere else interacting with local students, who are you actually are? Like who are you trying to represent? you know, from which perspective are you actually speaking from?
So for me, I really have a problem. I've had some other friends who are also international students, which I'm not going to say from where, but they literally would call themselves like Sam or just be like, I'm really American. I'm all American. And I think that's like, it's just not fun anymore. I know where you're from. I would be more interested in your
Matthew Lu (37:02)
Mmm.
Henry Kong (37:05)
childhood story other than you know how well you know Hollywood or how well you know about American football you know like those stories I can hear my actual friend my friend whose name is actual Sam you know and I've met a lot yes I one of my best friend Indiana is Sam well his name is actual Sam I went back and met him again he said yeah my best friend is coming back from China but yeah anyway I'm like
Matthew Lu (37:13)
Yeah, yeah.
Control Sam.
Mm-hmm.
Aww.
Henry Kong (37:31)
When I interact with local students, I always think that I am someone from China, I'm going to be polite, I'm going to be respectful towards whatever the local culture is and introduce them to mine as well as learning from them. And I think that really got me the advantage of speaking to them from an equal part, instead of me being really trying to be
Matthew Lu (37:53)
Mmm.
Henry Kong (37:56)
a new immigrant, you know, being here like acting all American, like only eating hamburgers and steak. That's kind of like lost yourself, you know.
Matthew Lu (37:59)
Yeah
haha
I feel you man, yeah. Susan and I probably have gone through something like that. Where we, have to, you know, try to be more white sometimes. Because not a lot of Asians, yeah.
Susan Su (38:11)
Yeah, I know it's ⁓
sure.
Yeah, I think that's a rite
of passage for any immigrant diaspora kid growing up in the US. definitely had the phase. The phase is like, OK, you don't bring the food your mom packed for lunch. You want a peanut butter sandwich. Yeah, you insist on being called Susan. No mention of my Chinese name ever in public. ⁓ Yeah.
Matthew Lu (38:44)
Yeah.
Susan Su (38:46)
Yeah, there's all definitely like a cultural rejection phase. Yeah, like I want to be actual Sam, like call me Sam. yeah, I for sure know it's it's it's good that you were able to retain that authenticity. And if anything, I think your experiences in China, probably reaffirmed your identity more than say if you had grown up like, maybe like, like me and Matt were okay, we
Matthew Lu (38:46)
Call me Sam.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (39:13)
we were like always kind of in between. like even growing up, it's like you're not that quite like you're not that certain. Okay, who am I? So no, it's always interesting to get to see different people's perspectives on that end. So was kind of curious about just your life in college in terms of music. So you mentioned that during your college you kind of
Matthew Lu (39:21)
Yeah
Susan Su (39:38)
kind of carried on your journey, kind of try to leverage the expertise from your rock band days to promote a band in China to tour the states. So tell us a little about that. How did that start and what were some interesting stories from that experience?
Henry Kong (39:54)
yeah, I had a small startup in the first year. It quickly failed. And I remember it was like internet stuff, an app basically. Pretty quick, one semester. It failed after summer. Yeah, so, but I remember like in that summer we met intensively with a lot of investors.
Matthew Lu (40:04)
How quick. How quick.
Susan Su (40:06)
Mm.
Matthew Lu (40:11)
⁓ okay.
Henry Kong (40:19)
from my friends who are already successful and then put me in touch with them. And remember the last investor asked me and my partner to go to his office. That guy listened to my story for what, 30 minutes about whatever I just told you guys before. And then another 30 minutes on how my app is gonna be great. I'm gonna be the next Mark Zuckerberg.
Matthew Lu (40:24)
Hmm.
Hmph.
Henry Kong (40:46)
Back then Elon Musk wasn't that big, know. Everybody was worshipping Mark. And after an hour of hearing me, he said, do you know why I asked you to be here today? I was like, I don't know. Maybe he just asked me about my app, my startup. And he's like, no, I asked you here because I realized you have a huge experience and background in music. And why did you stop?
Matthew Lu (40:48)
⁓
Right.
Henry Kong (41:16)
that. I was like, you know, maybe I was too afraid to think, because I moved to America and I was too afraid to think Chinese music was going to be a thing over there. And then he started to talk about the, you know, the increased number of Chinese students in America, this potential needs to see Chinese acts in America. And he said, you know,
Matthew Lu (41:18)
Hmm.
Hmm, I see.
Henry Kong (41:41)
You should just keep doing what you actually want to do instead of doing something you're not professional at. You're not passionate about this startup. You don't want to be that kind of tech guy. You want to be the music guy. You want to be the entertainment guy. What?
Matthew Lu (41:52)
Mm-hmm.
What was it on, by the way? Your
app. What was the app on? What was this app about?
Henry Kong (42:00)
It
was basically an app where you can order food on the app and then pick it up at the railway station or airport, which is now offered at all the high-speed rail in China. I was much before that. could actually be Mark Zuckerberg. Damn, I lost that opportunity. Yeah, but then I...
Matthew Lu (42:16)
Okay.
⁓ I see, I see.
Susan Su (42:24)
you
Henry Kong (42:26)
thought about his words and I was like, yeah, maybe I should just do that. So I went back to America in that winter. I caught up one of my friends who played drums in another band from high school that I worked with. I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this thing. And then he caught up another drummer who was based in Boston.
My first friend, my partner is based in California, Stockton. I was in the middle west. My other friend was in Boston. So all three of us, we got into a WeChat group and then we decided, okay, let's do that. And the first band that I promoted was Escape Plan in 2017. They were super big with the song, Ye Kun Dong Zui Liang De Xing. And ⁓ I talked to their manager, but their manager back then thought,
Matthew Lu (42:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (43:14)
my WeChat ID photo looked non-professional. So she rejected me. It was the same photo like now. no, it was before that one, but it was pretty cool. It was a chill photo of me just hanging. But she rejected me and then she started talking with another promoter and that promoter only promoted two shows, three shows.
Matthew Lu (43:21)
what was it?
okay.
Henry Kong (43:40)
the whole tour. So he sold two shows, one in Boston, one in New York to me. And eventually, throughout the tour, the manager realized I was more reliable and much more professional when it comes to touring. And therefore we became pretty much best friends. We're still friends to this day. She's a great mentor. She helped me a lot.
Matthew Lu (43:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
wow.
Henry Kong (44:07)
later on, when it comes to tour, when it comes to anything related to music. So yeah, that's how I promoted my first tour. It was quite exciting and it was really amazing experience.
Matthew Lu (44:22)
Yeah, that's great. So you continued to basically work then throughout the rest of your college experience, arranging these tours for Chinese bands and artists to perform in the US, right? ⁓ And at this point, you were not, you weren't doing the other way around yet, right? You weren't getting like American artists into China quite yet, right?
Henry Kong (44:35)
Yes.
No.
No.
Matthew Lu (44:47)
Okay. But like that has also become a part of your work now. So now you're kind of doing it both ways. Is that correct?
Henry Kong (44:56)
yeah, but more, I would say 90 % of my work is bringing American bands to China. Just like how it was fully, you know, reversed when I bring a lot of bands from China to America.
Matthew Lu (45:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And another thing that I'm really interested in is, like it, when I think of your work, I feel like it's a lot about logistics and aligning like timetables, details about, you know, what goes where, how to bring the equipment and set up the stages, negotiating all the times and the numbers.
So a lot of project management that I can imagine, but also you're someone who has pretty, pretty wide range of interpersonal skills. you can pretty much get by in any kind of situation with any kind of person, I think. what's more like the human aspect or the human side of your work when it comes to spending time with these artists that you book?
and taking them around, showing them local culture or food or whatever. What does that part of your work look like?
Henry Kong (46:11)
I guess I always enjoyed being a tour guide or professionally as we call a tour manager. I love showing Chinese bands, Chinese musicians around in America.
Matthew Lu (46:17)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (46:24)
Two of my favorite touring stories of me with Chinese acts, one is with the most notorious Triple H in Chinese Honghua Hui. So right after their huge break from the show, China Got Hip Hop Season 1, when PG-1 got the first place, one week before that show aired,
Matthew Lu (46:36)
Mmm.
Henry Kong (46:48)
I got a phone call from the president of Modern Sky USA who was managing the group. He called me and he was like, Henry, do you want to do this tour? Like I can give you one show. That's the best I can do. If you want to do Boston, I'll give you one show. I wasn't really familiar with hip hop.
But seeing how big the show had got in China, I was like, okay, I'll consider it, but you have to let me know whether PG-1 won the first place or not. And his exact words was, I cannot tell you that he won. I was like, that's fair enough. So I booked his show, the food group came, and...
Matthew Lu (47:21)
Mm.
Henry Kong (47:32)
I remember in 2015 there was this film called Straight Out Compton about NWA. In that film there was a part where the group toured I think Detroit. They were having a party at the hotel and then suddenly a rebel gang came up and shot the group. They were literally having a gunfight. And after the Triple H tour I started telling my friends, you know,
Matthew Lu (47:39)
Yeah, I remember. It was good. It good one.
Henry Kong (48:02)
I've seen some much, some things pretty much the same. So when I toured with Triple H in Boston, right, it was a fully sold out show. It sold out so quickly. The show went on sale on Thursday or Friday at 12 and noon. I was in a class, my class ends on 12 15. So around 12 10, I got a phone call from a partner in Boston and he's like,
Matthew Lu (48:05)
Really?
Henry Kong (48:27)
Yo, Henry, you gotta check this ticket platform. It only went online 10 minutes and they say it's already sold out. So I got so furious. It was a huge tour for me. I went out to the restroom, I called the manager of the venue. was like, dude, I gotta check your platforms. There's some technical issue. It says it's already sold out. We had 1,200 tickets on sale at...
Matthew Lu (48:40)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Henry Kong (48:54)
like a hundred dollar per piece and he was so like he was so out he was like what it's already sold out yeah it is sold out i was like no and then when it came to the tour you know the hip-hop group they they literally just got big through the show so they were going around hanging out with college girls you know chinese students who are really just
Matthew Lu (48:57)
Yeah, it's not cheap.
Mmm
Henry Kong (49:20)
star fame by them and they were going to all those, you know, I wasn't gonna use the word groupies, but yeah, groupies. And they were going to like fancy stores, but my job and the band's manager's job was at the hotel, staying in the lobby, make sure nobody gets out, because otherwise it'll be crazy. Anyway, people got out, we went to the show, the show was a huge success.
Matthew Lu (49:23)
Groupies, yeah.
Hmm.
Henry Kong (49:48)
Even the owner of the venue came. We did the show at a club called Royale at Boston. And the owner was pretty much sure he's a mafia. Like he dressed in tuxedo, came... Old Italian white guy. We smoked together outside. And he was asking me all these stories. I was really nervous. But anyway, during the show, there were like Chinese hip hop stars. They love to throw water around, right? So some of the water got into the monitor. And then... And the backline rain hole guys...
Matthew Lu (50:02)
⁓
Henry Kong (50:15)
the company, the guys, they were not happy about it. So they complained they had a huge fight with the DJ. And after the show, they were trying to make up, be nice. So the DJ came up trying to put his arm around that guy from the rental company. And the guy thought he was fighting them. So a huge fight broke out. We were in the green room on the second floor, So suddenly we heard
Matthew Lu (50:20)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
my goodness.
Henry Kong (50:41)
our photographer, this little girl from Berklee Music Institute, she yelled, So everybody just rushed down the stairs and saw they were fighting together. So we pulled them out. We brought our guy up to the green room. We asked what happened. And then after that DJ guy told us what happened, the rest of the group went crazy.
Matthew Lu (50:48)
my
god.
Henry Kong (51:04)
Some of them starting to like getting getting baseball back from the side of the room. Other people were like taking chairs out and the head of security at the venue came up to the green room. was this pretty much he's almost seven feet tall. He came up to the room. He was trying to apologize to the group. You know, he was trying to say like, okay, sorry on our side. Sorry and blah, blah. He opened the door and one guy from the group.
Matthew Lu (51:12)
Wow.
Henry Kong (51:32)
He's also super big now, Brian B. Xiao Bai. He just opened the door, went out, slammed the chair on that guy. But that guy was seven feet tall, so he took the chair, threw it away, and then he looked at me, he said, Henry, you talk to them. If they wanna talk, let's talk. If they wanna talk, we'll call the cops. And that was that. So literally a fight broke out.
Matthew Lu (51:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
What the heck?
Mmm.
Henry Kong (52:00)
So that was my NWA story.
Matthew Lu (52:03)
my gosh. Miscommunication though, right? The cues didn't align. Yeah.
Susan Su (52:06)
you
Henry Kong (52:06)
Yeah, it's definitely just miscommunication.
Susan Su (52:11)
Wow,
that's, those are some good stories. And looks like you had a lot of adventures. This was all when you were still at school, right? You're still a college student and.
Henry Kong (52:19)
I yeah, was, was,
was 20.
Susan Su (52:21)
Wow. So how did that, ⁓ yeah, how did you balance that with school? yeah, were there challenges?
Matthew Lu (52:21)
My goodness.
So much experience.
Henry Kong (52:31)
I mean that was already my second part of the second year. So I already finished a lot of entry level classes like know, academic writing, algebra, like natural science, all those like required for freshmen. And my major class are like the professors are pretty understandable towards me working on this.
So my music industry professor would always say, yo, Henry, you always leave on Thursday and then come back on Monday, stuff like that.
Matthew Lu (52:56)
Yeah.
Yeah, they know it's more valuable, probably the experiences that you're getting outside of the classroom than listening to the lecture, huh? That's cool though.
Susan Su (53:09)
Yeah. ⁓
Henry Kong (53:12)
Yeah,
yeah.
Susan Su (53:13)
Yeah, the exposure alone and just the stories you're able to tell. think the stories always, they always make it worth it. Like you come back with such a different perspective and the people around you. so how long did that, did this gig promoting bands in China, how long did this continue? So you were in school and then you graduated, did that become your job after?
Henry Kong (53:21)
you
Matthew Lu (53:22)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (53:37)
or what was it like after?
Henry Kong (53:40)
It did become my job, but it just didn't really work out because back then we were hitting a market cap. Like there were too many tours of artists from China and all the big ones were already done that. So we're looking at smaller acts and those acts were not making money. So we kind of put a stop on that and then there was COVID. So everything changed.
Matthew Lu (54:05)
So after COVID, how did you kind of readjust your idea of like what kind of work you actually wanted to do? Because you had come back to China, you had graduated. There are some limitations, obviously, because of the pandemic. how did you decide like what you wanted to do next?
Henry Kong (54:23)
like for me, it was always staying in same industry, entertainment industry. And I was choosing between coming back to China or staying in the US. And I don't know, I feel like my experience in LA, gave me the idea that if I stayed in LA, I will never actually.
Matthew Lu (54:29)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (54:45)
become someone or actually do something. I could easily become a mid-level executive at Universal, Warner, Sony, whatever you name it, but I will never be the crucial key player in the industry, let alone representing my culture. But coming back to China, know, music industry in China is still pretty much a baby.
Matthew Lu (54:48)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Henry Kong (55:12)
A lot of things are still evolving rapidly. Unlike in America, know, pretty much the cake is already cut and split up, but in China, it's still new, still growing. And I realized I want to be a key player in Chinese music industry. And then hopefully in the future that could, you know, going back to the world stage representing China again. So that was my main reason coming back.
Matthew Lu (55:13)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Henry Kong (55:39)
Coming back to China with the whole Covid situation, promoting shows was not easy for me. So I did a few consulting jobs for my old clients, especially Escape Plan. I put them together with this show designer called Tobias Rylander who designed Escape Plan's touring visual on stage. But that guy was also the... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was definitely crazy. Yes.
Matthew Lu (55:39)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
yeah, you showed me, it's pretty crazy. The lights, lights and effects.
Henry Kong (56:05)
Yes, he was also the designer for Beyonce and Abba, Abba experience in London. yeah, those consulting jobs got me through the hardest time in COVID.
Matthew Lu (56:09)
wow.
ABBA, okay.
Okay. Yeah. yeah, I see that like, of course you, music is what you've known for a really long time. You've dived really deeply into it from a young age. And so it follows that, you know, this is something that you're pretty sure that you want to continue working in. But also, you know, it's the first time kind of mentioning, although we alluded to before, through this type of work, you're kind of promoting a form of cultural exchange.
and cultural export, right? Kind of showing the sides of Chinese contemporary culture to other, you know, maybe English speaking audiences. and so when it comes to, I guess, this particular mission that you have, are there any other opportunities in the music or entertainment?
industries that you can identify kind of currently, which can also help China kind of export their culture elsewhere. Or is it just kind of what we've been doing with more traditional methods, like building a following, having them tour, maybe like collaborating with English speaking artists in some way. Yeah. Are there any other like opportunities or
or approaches that maybe you think can be explored for China's cultural exports.
Henry Kong (57:43)
Definitely, all the methods that you just mentioned are pretty much still the main way of doing things. also we're looking at other methods with smaller acts. ⁓ I think that the world is eager to know what China actually is. From a perspective of looking at the young people, you know?
Matthew Lu (57:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah, yeah.
for sure.
Henry Kong (58:11)
I always tell my friends in America that it's not important how different we are, but it's really important to look at how similar we are, especially like China and American people.
Matthew Lu (58:22)
Yeah, agreed.
Yeah, totally agree.
Susan Su (58:25)
Yeah. So then, moving on to what you, the current work you're doing, you mentioned that you, yeah, consulting got through, got you through those most difficult years during COVID. So how did that then trend, how did that become what you're doing now? So right now you, yeah, you're doing a lot of international tours, local festivals around China. How did that start?
Henry Kong (58:47)
It was around late 2021, me and my other friend from college who's based in Shandong. And we talked about how we can put shows together and that was a huge opportunity just looking at the live entertainment industry in China now. And then we started another company focusing on festivals, on tours.
Matthew Lu (59:00)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (59:11)
And that's pretty much how I started to get back into this area again.
Matthew Lu (59:15)
Mmm.
Susan Su (59:16)
Wow. So yeah, no, that's really cool. And I guess one thing I really enjoy about China is how fast things move. It's like you have an idea and you can immediately hop on it, get started, start organizing already. So how did that grow? What were the most memorable experiences? Your favorite tours? Any favorite festivals you guys did?
Henry Kong (59:39)
So we did this festival, I always talk about this example because I think that was my favorite festival in all my working experience back in China. It was pretty much fully promoted by us in Shouguang, which is a small town, not even Shouguang, it's pretty close to Shouguang, but it was a small town near a small town in rural Shandong province.
Matthew Lu (59:51)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:00:03)
So, 50 miles around the Festival venue, you won't even find a market. And I drove there from Beijing because that's much closer. It's right beside the highway. And when we got there, the hotel that my team found for all of us, the Festival promoters, the artists, was actually... How should I say this?
Matthew Lu (1:00:04)
Hmm.
my gosh.
Henry Kong (1:00:29)
school for government officials. ⁓ Yes, so you wake up on 6 a.m. to join the breakfast, you're gonna see people wearing traditional communist outfit with this thing on their chest every day. And you know, seeing all the bands from non-Mingling China living in that hotel, joining that group was definitely...
Susan Su (1:00:33)
Wow.
Matthew Lu (1:00:34)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Henry Kong (1:00:56)
mind-blowing. We had Ah Yue from Taiwan, Zhang Zhen Yue. He was literally in the same hotel and there was nothing around that compound so we can do soundcheck like all night to the morning, right? And I got there around 1 a.m. in the morning and then the next band was flown in from Qingdao.
Matthew Lu (1:00:57)
Wow. Yeah, this just...
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Henry Kong (1:01:24)
and then the Chairs, the band's name is the Chairs, Yizi Yue Tuan, they got in around 3... yeah, they're pretty good, they're pretty good, really local stuff from Southern Taiwan. But they got there 3am, the first thing they asked me, can we find something to eat? And I was like, I'll try my best, but no guarantees here.
Matthew Lu (1:01:29)
⁓ I've heard of them.
They're like, nope.
Henry Kong (1:01:50)
So me, my other colleagues, we sent out three cars just going to different directions trying to find one market that can find them anything to eat. So I went into this village, it was really early in the morning, it was around 3.30, 4 a.m. in the morning. I see all those farmers were flipping the corns, the little corn thing they had on the ground trying to...
Matthew Lu (1:01:58)
Search mission.
okay.
Henry Kong (1:02:19)
to dry them. They were flipping them. So I went up and I asked them, where can I find some food? They were speaking Shandong dialect. I couldn't understand that at all. So I was really devastated. I drove back to the hotel. I was ready to face the management. I was like, sorry, you just got to wait two more hours for the breakfast. And then my colleague called me. He found the only 24 hours internet cafe in the town.
Matthew Lu (1:02:22)
Wow.
Henry Kong (1:02:47)
20 kilometers outside of our venue. He bought all the instant ramen, all the packaged egg, all the sausages he could found at the internet cafe. He drove back with all the noodles and stuff, gave them to the artist, and the artist was like, thank you so much.
Matthew Lu (1:02:53)
That's far.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (1:03:11)
you
Matthew Lu (1:03:12)
so
responsible. my goodness.
Henry Kong (1:03:13)
Yeah,
that's our job, know, serving the artist, serving the audience as well.
Matthew Lu (1:03:17)
Yeah.
Susan Su (1:03:20)
thank you. Thanks for sharing. That's very, yeah, very cool story for sure. And we got to love those 24 hour cafes. I think that that's always a lifesaver. And no of nowhere. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:03:29)
Internet Cafe.
Susan Su (1:03:33)
So now I'm kind of looking ahead then. What are you currently working on? Any new projects coming up?
Henry Kong (1:03:43)
We have three tours planned for next year, three bands that previously we worked together but not offline, like not our shows yet. ⁓ For about three years, I've been looking forward to bring them to China to test out. And although we tried in 2025, but it wasn't really the best time. And we're going to try again next year. So that's for tours.
Matthew Lu (1:03:54)
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:04:09)
And for festivals, of course, we're looking for more opportunities. So if anyone listening to this podcast have an opportunity like that, reach out to me. I would love to put out small festivals in wherever you are. And we're also working with this small punk rock band from New York City. They're listeners learning Chinese, learning Mandarin. I think she came to China earlier this year.
Matthew Lu (1:04:22)
For sure. Yep.
Yeah, yeah.
Henry Kong (1:04:39)
She just fell in love with the whole environment, culture around here. So she reached out to me. She was trying to expand their market. And now we're working together to do their social medias and trying to bring them out here to tour. And also, my consulting company is exploring some opportunities with the performance rights organization in America.
Matthew Lu (1:04:45)
Mm.
Henry Kong (1:05:06)
So a lot of exciting stuff coming up and I'm really looking forward to them.
Matthew Lu (1:05:07)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Great, kind of like, just summarize, what you've done, what you're working on now and what you hope to work on in the future. Like, what would you say is the dream? I'd say like five, 10, 15 years from now. Like you said, you, want to be come like a, a mover and a shaker in like the Chinese music scene. and you know that you also care about, you know, cultural exchange.
showing how, for example, Chinese people and Americans are more similar than different. And maybe arts and music is one way to do that, to connect and to have resonance. But yeah, what's the dream? What's the goal? Anything kind of like midterm, longterm that you're thinking about? What do you hope to accomplish?
Henry Kong (1:05:59)
Well, I think for me the dream is the long-term thing. I wouldn't call a midterm goal a dream. That would be a midterm objective. yeah. But I think the dream for me is to become someone like Walt Disney, who's really telling the story to the rest of the world.
Matthew Lu (1:06:08)
Hmm. That'd just be a nap.
Okay
Okay.
Henry Kong (1:06:25)
And
I want to tell the Chinese story to the rest of the world because my experience, my whole life is telling people from other cultural backgrounds who I am as a Chinese kid growing up in Beijing and how similar we are, ⁓ how things are actually instead of how the media.
Matthew Lu (1:06:38)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:06:50)
tells us to see. So I want to be that storyteller. Yeah. I to be that storyteller tell my story as well as the Chinese story to the rest of the world.
Matthew Lu (1:06:52)
Yeah, just normal people.
cool you're well on your way man respect you can do it if it's anyone is gonna be you man
Susan Su (1:07:05)
Yes.
Henry Kong (1:07:11)
Hey, finger crossed.
Susan Su (1:07:12)
Yeah, it's definitely
so meaningful. just with your with your experience to just being in this being in between doing so much like cultural promotion and music really bonds people together. It's something that goes across geographic boundaries. so, you know, rooting for you for sure. And for our listeners, if anyone.
Matthew Lu (1:07:26)
its own language.
Susan Su (1:07:33)
Yeah, of course, if anyone has anything similar that they want to hit Henry up for, we'll share his contact info too and hopefully give you some help in telling this story. For sure. So I guess just kind of wrapping up our conversation then, what advice would you give to maybe someone young who, whether they want to
go into music, something like what you're doing, or just someone trying to navigate this in-between world, like going to navigate between US, China, trying to tell these stories to people from a different culture in a time of massive global contention. What are some words of wisdom you can impart?
Henry Kong (1:08:18)
The first one I would say is always be sure of who you are. So know your identity, know your story, and know your goals. That's definitely just be sure of who you actually are. You don't have to pretend to be someone else. Just being who you are is the perfect...
Matthew Lu (1:08:29)
Mm.
Henry Kong (1:08:42)
Perfect status you can be and the second I would say is Just don't be afraid to try anything, you know one joke that I had with my American friends because My friend Sam born and raised in Indianapolis He has only ten things he would eat so from chicken nugget to spaghetti. I could count with both my hands That was a joke. I always made fun of him
Matthew Lu (1:08:46)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:09:07)
And but now he's better. He's open to other fools. So I always tell him... Yeah, yeah. I always tell him, don't be afraid to try, you know. Just try everything. Try anything you won't try before, because you'll never know. Otherwise, you'll just, you know, stay in your head. And the last...
Matthew Lu (1:09:08)
Shout out Sam.
He has twelve items now.
kidding Sam.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:09:33)
thing that I would say is, combined with the last thing, try everything, start everything small. You don't have to start a conglomerate in the next day, even Rome wasn't building the day. You have to start a huge platform. So if you have any great idea, try to start small and then scale it up.
Matthew Lu (1:09:43)
Mmm.
Yeah. Wonderful advice. And just kind of following up on that first point, because I noticed that, you know, in my work with, you know, high school students and in academic or life coaching, or just, you know, talking to a lot of my friends, people our age, who've taken more traditional professional backgrounds. It seems like no matter the age, a lot of people are feeling a
bit lost about like who they feel like they actually are. And so on the first point, which I really agree with kind of, you know, being true to yourself. Do you have any thoughts, wisdom, ideas, advice for people who are just not sure? how can they become more sure of what is important to them if they're kind of lost? Any ideas?
Henry Kong (1:10:51)
I think growing up, I had many opportunities to go into other directions. I tried out for TV shows when I was in third grade. My mom said no because I had to move to another city. It's a popular show called 快乐星球. It was a popular kids show. Yes, I love that show. Third season, 棒棒.
Matthew Lu (1:11:01)
Really?
What? Dude!
Susan Su (1:11:08)
Wait, really?
Wait, I love that show. Wait, who did you try out for?
Matthew Lu (1:11:10)
I watched it.
Susan Su (1:11:15)
Bong-Bong! my god!
Henry Kong (1:11:16)
So after
the second season, I went to a summer camp to try out for the main title. The guy who actually played the main character, Ban Ban, was actually my roommate. We stayed in the same room at the campus. But that was another story. They called my family their... Well, you know, I could be that pop star if I went to that direction.
Matthew Lu (1:11:29)
What? Wow.
Susan Su (1:11:30)
Dang... You're
ruined with bong bong.
Henry Kong (1:11:39)
Yeah, I was gonna go and then my mom said, no, you're from Beijing. You cannot quit school for one year. Go to Henan and just, you know, try your TV dreams. But so that was one, right? I had another opportunity in middle school before I got into music. was, you know, I was good with computers. So I did 3D animation with 3DS Max with Maya. I even won a prize on...
Matthew Lu (1:11:49)
Mm. Mm.
Henry Kong (1:12:05)
one of the competitions. I didn't go into that until I went into music. And then I realized, okay, that's something I want to do for the rest of my life. So combined with my second suggestion, which is try everything, I think the one way, the only way to be sure of yourself, be true to yourself is that...
Matthew Lu (1:12:12)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:12:28)
Try everything and then find out the thing that you're most passionate about.
Matthew Lu (1:12:33)
Yeah, agreed. You'll never know unless you put yourself out there and actually start, you know, start moving, start doing and connecting to your third point. People are afraid of trying out new things. So that's why it's hard for them to get a clear picture of who they are. Right. There's a lot of noise out there, but I'm really glad to have you on here and share your story because although
Susan Su (1:12:33)
solid.
Henry Kong (1:12:46)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (1:12:57)
It's very difficult for us to give other people advice or to even coach them, you know, if they're very directionless. I do, I do think that listening to different possibilities of lifestyles and life experiences and the diversity of it does help a little bit, maybe in providing some, confidence for people who want to make a change. Yeah. Great. So kind of.
Henry Kong (1:13:22)
for sure.
Matthew Lu (1:13:26)
Wrapping up here, we like to invite our guests to introduce a category that they would like to recommend something for. And so today it's up to you to set the category and then we'll kind of try to match your energy with some insightful recommendations as best as best as we can. So what's the what's the rec category and what's your rec, Henry?
Henry Kong (1:13:51)
So after I carefully thought about this, I'm gonna say film. And my recommendation, yeah, films. And my recommendation, I'm gonna say two actually. The first one is for anyone who's interested in music. Or just in general, in producing music or in the music industry, there's a film called Begin Again.
Matthew Lu (1:13:56)
Film. Okay.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Henry Kong (1:14:13)
Karen Nelly and Mark Ruffalo and it was the film that got me opened up about the whole music producing world like how producing an album actually should be like instead of you know just you know in a fancy studio doing everything so that was my recommendation for anyone who's interested in the music industry
Matthew Lu (1:14:18)
Mm.
Okay.
Henry Kong (1:14:42)
And another one is just generally about life. It's from my personal, personally speaking, it's my all time favorite, like, see tongue film, you know, like I'll cure myself with that film when I'm definitely feel good film. Whenever I feel down in, in life, it's called a good year by, really Scott.
Matthew Lu (1:14:55)
Okay, feel good. ⁓
Susan Su (1:14:57)
Mm-hmm.
Matthew Lu (1:15:00)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Susan Su (1:15:07)
All right, Matt, you want to go first? Because I went first last time.
Matthew Lu (1:15:11)
Okay, so... Alright, so what comes to mind, I guess, is a film that I watched, I think, earlier this year. So it's a Japanese movie called Perfect Days. it's a very calm, serene...
movie centered on a main character who lives a very minimal lifestyle lives by himself. And he is a toilet cleaner in Tokyo. So the movie is centered on what his life is like from when he wakes up, how he does his job and then what he does after he clocks out.
And the thing that you get is that like he is extremely content with his life. Although it's on the outside, it seems like there's nothing special about it. Right. Like he has his routine. He loves music. You know, he listens to a lot of his own cassette tape collections. He likes to read, likes to take pictures. And not a lot happens in the movie, but
He has some interactions with other characters who I think are representative more of more commonly seen roles that we play in society and the intersections between his life and these other people and the adventures and the things that happen, the conversations that happen, I think are quite thought provoking in this extremely fast paced society that we live in today. So I would recommend
Perfect Days. It's a movie from 2023. Very well acted and a beautiful movie.
Susan.
Susan Su (1:16:48)
I hardly ever watch movies, I'll be frank. I only really watch them on like long haul flights. Yeah, so usually I do a few there in between naps. So yeah, my rec was, I think something I watched in one of the flights last this past year. And you might have heard of it, it's called Didi or like, yeah, it's a...
Matthew Lu (1:16:52)
haha
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Susan Su (1:17:11)
Yeah, yeah, it's a coming of age film about a Taiwanese American boy in in Northern California and basically just deals with I don't I don't actually remember the details much. It's been a while, but like kind of the his his growing up experience as he transitions into high school. And I think it's his his passion for skateboarding. And it was it's like.
Matthew Lu (1:17:25)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Susan Su (1:17:35)
Yeah, like I just thought it was very, it was nice first to see films about Asian-Americans kids growing up. I think that's something that we were deprived of. There was like no AAPI representation when you and I were young, like Matt. So now seeing more of them come out, it's always nice. this one, I think some parts, having grown up in California myself in a large public high school, as one of the few Asians, it was pretty relatable.
Matthew Lu (1:17:42)
Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Su (1:18:01)
dynamics, the friend groups, even the jokes people tell, and also this immigrant experience. And I thought it also spoke a lot about the greater Taiwanese American experience in the US because so many of these families were imported to work on the semiconductor industry, and then at times many of the fathers would be sent back to Taiwan to work while the families
Matthew Lu (1:18:05)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Susan Su (1:18:27)
stayed in the US. it was also very insightful to see this single parent, yeah, like the single parent household. It's also something I relate with. So it was, yeah, it was pretty funny. It's pretty like chill, but also very, ⁓ it's sentimental in its own way. So would recommend.
Matthew Lu (1:18:30)
okay. Single, single parent, right? Pretty much.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Awesome. Cool. Great Rex guys. And yeah, thanks again for offering your wisdom and your perspectives and your story, Henry. Super good. Also just catching up with you and learning about some of these other really interesting details about your life. Like we shoot the shit sometimes. But yeah, there's always something. There's always a layer, even with people that you know well that you...
Henry Kong (1:18:59)
Thank you, thank you.
Matthew Lu (1:19:15)
You never know and that's super interesting. Yeah. Cool.
Henry Kong (1:19:19)
this year.
Susan Su (1:19:20)
All right, so that's a wrap on today's episode of Liminal Space, where we navigate the thresholds of culture, identity, and experience. If our conversation resonated with you, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share our own story. We love to hear what you've discovered in the spaces in between.
Join us next time as we continue to explore what it means to live in the liminal. See you soon. Bye bye.
Henry Kong (1:19:48)
Bye.
Susan Su (1:19:49)
Thanks guys.
Matthew Lu (1:19:50)
Woo!
