From Chi-Town to China: Navigating Identity, Supply Chain, and the China Dream with Joshua Charles Woodard
Matthew Lu (00:25)
welcome to Liminal Space, where we explore the thresholds of identity, culture, and experience. I am Matthew Lu, one half of the duo. Along with my friend, Susan, we've created this podcast for those who find themselves navigating the spaces in between, whether it's between cultures, worlds, or ideas. Each episode, we delve into the rich complexity of modern Chinese stories, as told by those who exist at its peripheries.
Jashy (00:42)
Thanks.
Matthew Lu (00:52)
diaspora voices, third culture kids, and individuals who embody the bridge between China and the world and between tradition and innovation. Step into a little space with us where we find meaning in the transitions, the gray areas, and the moments of becoming.
Jashy (01:08)
Ick.
Susan (01:10)
Today we have the honor of hosting Joshua Charles Woodard, a close friend and a modern Renaissance man. Josh is an engineer, entrepreneur, photographer, violinist, and nightlife demon. Growing up in Chicago, Josh charted out the beginnings of his China dream from his humble beginnings at Whitney Young High School to MIT, and from MIT to Beijing for China's Schwarzman Scholars Program. Josh has worked
Jashy (01:24)
Thank
Susan (01:37)
on everything from building his own supply chain consulting business to throwing some of the littest parties in Shenzhen. Without further ado, welcome to the show,
Jashy (01:46)
Yo, what's up fam? How y'all doing today? Clap, clap, clout.
Matthew Lu (01:47)
Welcome yo, great to have you
Susan (01:51)
welcome, welcome.
So Josh, I've been a follower of yours on Instagram, Josh at the Sparrows. I noticed you're making a lot of cool content and you're bridging that slowly towards Little Red, the Chinese app. So I guess the red note, okay,
Jashy (02:07)
red note.
Matthew Lu (02:09)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (02:10)
Red Book in English,
Susan (02:12)
but yeah, how has that been?
Jashy (02:17)
yeah, social media.
I'll start with a thesis that I've crowdsourced from multiple YouTube videos. We're like now in the age where in order to have true engagement in your product or your service, you have to be personable. it's no longer about just having a cool recognizable brand, but more so about special platforms like Instagram and TikTok. It's about like being a persona that people want to follow.
Matthew Lu (02:25)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (02:44)
Nobody wants to be advertised that because we all know what advertising looks like very, very well. Right. But if you create interesting content that engages people that they want to continue to follow and share and like and comment on, then it's a better way of building natural brand trust and recognition over time. which then I hope in the long run will translate towards being a natural way of generating leads for the sparrows for my manufacturing consulting business. So,
Matthew Lu (02:49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jashy (03:09)
Yeah,
right now I'm making a bunch of videos on Chinese proverbs which actually is much easier to do. there are two types of content that I make for it. one type of content is factory tours and the other type right now is Chinese proverbs. The Chinese barber but she can make these like
Matthew Lu (03:14)
Yeah.
Jashy (03:24)
like two to three hours and like I end up learning stuff, you know, I'll use Tencent's chat GPT and I'll put in a proverb and it'll just tell me the proverbs history and etymology and uses so I can give interesting stories. Yeah, it's been a fun process.
Matthew Lu (03:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. What have you seen are some of the differences in say Red Note as a social media platform and Instagram or any of the other Western platforms that we're more familiar with, either in the design of the app itself or the user experience or what kinds of content tend to do well,
Jashy (03:40)
Yeah, man.
So I think for all of these platforms, it caters to different levels of brain rot, right? So TikTok is for the most rotten of brains. these are for people with the attention span of a peanut. So all TikTok content is like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, flashing from thing to thing to thing. IG.
Matthew Lu (04:07)
interesting
Jashy (04:22)
I think has a wider diversity, You have people doing vlogs, the video is a little more well paced, right? You don't feel like you're about to have a stroke when you watch the content. and red notes somehow. I think it leans more towards, personal blogging and more towards an IG style, more relaxed and like a Chinese way, but it'll just be like people long form talking or ranting, you know, with lots of.
Matthew Lu (04:45)
Yeah.
Jashy (04:46)
clips
interwoven in between. Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out Red Note, but coming from zero and posting four videos, it has been kind of easy just getting a few followers. I only posted three videos, I get one new follower every day. In terms of math, that means I only have 25 followers now. It's not good numbers, but it's a different game. Yeah, man, trying to figure it out.
Matthew Lu (05:01)
Pretty good.
You gotta start somewhere
That's great. yeah, the only thing I think I notice for the red note, you can't link externally. they're very protective of their, traffic essentially keeping it all in house. I think a lot of people were confused. Like why, are my posts being, directly deleted or whatever. yeah, you can't link to anything.
Susan (05:13)
Indeed,
Jashy (05:27)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (05:35)
Yeah, you saying, Susan?
Susan (05:36)
Well, that
Jashy (05:36)
Super interesting.
Susan (05:37)
is the case for a lot of Chinese apps too. WeChat, can't really link other things directly either. It is part of that closed ecosystem. in terms of the context behind all the social media, which Nat and I, we are obviously familiar with, but Josh, can you tell us why you decided to suddenly become this
Matthew Lu (05:44)
Mm. They make it hard. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Susan (06:02)
influencer type that shows Americans the inner workings of a Chinese pad factory or what Tang Ping means. Like tell us more about about the sparrows about this part.
Matthew Lu (06:02)
an influencer.
Jashy (06:10)
Yo. Yo.
Matthew Lu (06:12)
Mm-hmm
or Proverbs
Jashy (06:17)
you know, that video we made where we went to the eye, like the menstrual pad factory. I didn't realize how much people would like it. I think it's the absurdity and the contrast of a black dude explaining and walking through a feminine pad factory. It's just so.
Matthew Lu (06:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (06:35)
Strange. People like it. I think we need to do more stuff like that. Okay. So, the sparrows. back in 2023, I had a vision.
Matthew Lu (06:37)
It is. Yeah.
Jashy (06:51)
How do we bridge the cultural gap between America and China? No, that's not the vision actually. Back in 2023, I was tired of working at Apple. And I guess.
What I've seen at Apple, at other companies, there is more than a linguistic gap. There's like a cultural gap of understanding and collaboration across borders. I think it's fair to say that for a lot of, you know, the outside world, the world outside of mainland China, they don't understand how it works here, like how people do business, how they go about building relationships and how they go about collaboration.
Matthew Lu (07:13)
Mm.
Jashy (07:29)
So because I've only worked in China ever, I've never worked in any other country. And, I've been here already seven years. It seems like an interesting space to explore. You how do you create a company, an entity that can help bridge that cultural gap? Like, I don't know any other American who's worked in this. Well, I know one who's worked in China manufacturing supply chain for nearly as long as I have. So.
Matthew Lu (07:40)
Mm-hmm.
you
Jashy (07:54)
Yeah, from there is like, well, this seems like an opportunity. So the Sparrows in effect is, it's a manufacturing consultancy that helps international companies find, manufacture and control their Asian based supply chains. So we take on projects, honestly, at this point, we take on projects at any step of the hardware development process. And, you know, we can help you from start to finish.
so we can take on.
hardware development projects at any stage of the process. from somebody who has an idea of how something is supposed to work, or even somebody who has a working prototype and they're trying to scale from one to 100 to 1,000. Yeah, we've been in a lot of different engagements. So anything from doing the factory, initial factory audits, to doing a supply chain development, maybe doing process optimization for a particular manufacturing process step, to doing quality control.
Matthew Lu (08:22)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (08:45)
We'll just ensure that the things that got out of the door work and function in the way they were intended to. Project management, right? We just, want to be the on the ground team that is, you know, helping people execute their manufacturing visions. As my business partner would say, we're fluent in Chinese, English, and engineering. So.
Matthew Lu (08:51)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I
love that. That's a great slogan.
Jashy (09:08)
She's a
clever little bird, my business partner.
Susan (09:12)
Hmm.
Matthew Lu (09:13)
That's very interesting. So if we can go back a little bit more and just, talk about how coming to China was a part of your goals growing up. Because that's not something that a lot of people
would think about, in America, especially as a high school student, right? So what was going on in your mind at that time? And, how did you get here?
Jashy (09:38)
yeah man.
so I grew up on the south side of Chicago, right? And it was a pretty underprivileged, underserved, more violent than most neighborhood. And I think at a young age, I acknowledged that if I don't figure out how to build a life for myself, I will probably die in this neighborhood. So it became important for me to kind of eyes wide open.
Matthew Lu (09:50)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Jashy (10:08)
see what is the best opportunity for me creating a life that I'm in full control of. It just seems like growing up there, people who grow up there never leave. One of my mom's best friends passed away in the last year and she never left the neighborhood, ended up becoming an alcoholic. I think he had some organ failures at a certain point and just a dead end and I really didn't want that.
Matthew Lu (10:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Damn.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (10:32)
I just remember God. I remember sometimes I'd walk outside of my door and like there'd be like random puddles of blood and I'm just like, okay, let me just walk around this and go. Or, you know, you hear about the like, the local pastor, right? I live right next to St. Sabino. Father Flager is like a really big deal in Chicago. He's always like fighting for our rights and stuff.
Matthew Lu (10:32)
Yeah.
Holy shit.
Hmm.
Jashy (10:57)
But you know, he's lost his adopted children. He's lost his adopted children to gun violence in the neighborhood, in my alley. So yeah, my family was loving, but I knew I needed to make moves, right? So one of those moves was deciding to go to MIT when I was 12, because I'm just like.
Matthew Lu (11:04)
Okay.
Mmm.
Okay.
Jashy (11:18)
shoot for the stars and land in the sky, land in the clouds is that what they said? Yeah. The other move.
Matthew Lu (11:23)
land in the shoot for the
moon yeah
Jashy (11:28)
Shufu
Matthew Lu (11:30)
land on
the stars, I think. Anyways, go on.
Jashy (11:34)
Yeah, yeah, mean, to the question about China. So when I was 14, I made it into Whitney Young, which was the top school in Chicago, at the time. I think they require everyone to study a language, I believe.
Matthew Lu (11:40)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (11:50)
But I looked at the options, right? The options for like Japanese, French, Spanish, Chinese, think maybe Italian. I was just pretty good for like a public magnet high school. But I'm just looking at these languages, which one am I gonna get the most utility out of?
Matthew Lu (11:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
Not Spanish.
Jashy (12:06)
so I have the pick of these five languages. And, you know, at the time, like China, the Chinese were buying up all of America. They had bought the studio that made Inception, right? They're buying properties all over the country. And I'm just like, damn, I need to understand how they get money, because I'm not getting left behind. I'm getting this money, bro.
Matthew Lu (12:18)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm
Jashy (12:25)
So that's why I started learning Mandarin. There was no interest in the culture, to be honest. It was all about money. also the calculus that like, Chinese is like 1 fifth of the entire world population. You're going to find somebody who speaks this in the future. So that's where it started. Just seeing the language for its practical utility and hoping that I'd be able to.
Matthew Lu (12:26)
Mm-mm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jashy (12:50)
capitalize on it in the future.
Matthew Lu (12:52)
Gotcha. For sure.
But I guess something that comes to mind is I'm sure like at that point yet some budding interest in learning the language, but what kinds of Considerations go into your mind when you're considering Do I want to? Explore a future that's more international or do I want to stay in the States and become a very successful entrepreneur or an engineer or whatever
it's a big logical step I think as an American youth to be like I want to go to another country and live there or work there or learn there right especially you don't have any personal roots with China so looking back was there anything part of your experience that maybe nudged you to explore such a foreign a far away kind of place as a destination
Jashy (13:41)
I would say, I knew I wanted to visit China, but I never knew I'd live here for so long. That was never in a plan. But what I did know was that for me, as a 14 year old, I believe the American dream was bullshit to its core. Everyone's always talking about lifting themselves up, pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, but yet it's still.
Matthew Lu (13:49)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (14:02)
been systematically deprived of economic resources that would allow it to thrive. So the American dream is materializing for these immigrants, but not for Black Americans, not for people in this neighborhood. And then when you start digging into the history of Chicago, redlining and devaluing, the government systematically devaluing properties in certain neighborhoods because it doesn't make it as Black neighborhoods, then it's like, OK, wow.
Matthew Lu (14:07)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (14:32)
We're not all starting out on the same footing at all. Some of us start off negative, right? Or some stat I read in 2018 where it's like the average household wealth of a black family is negative $18, which is crazy. Maybe that's just in Boston, but I think it's in the Boston neighborhood. But yeah, which is to say there's just so much debt, in...
Matthew Lu (14:39)
Yeah.
Negative 18 dollars? That's insane.
Jashy (14:55)
the housing, the mortgages, debt in your credit cards, the debt from schooling that averages to be negative, mental. So for me at 14 years old, I'm just like, yeah, this American dream shit is bullshit. So like if I need to jump ship, where could I go? Like, because I'm not, I'm not getting caught. America's not catching me. Like this neighborhood is not catching me. I will not be caught.
Matthew Lu (14:57)
Mmm.
That's crazy.
Mmm.
Jashy (15:20)
So yeah, man, China was like one of the world population, right? It was doing all this explosive economic growth. It was Obama era China. So everybody's all woo woo, we love China. yeah, it seemed, it seemed, those are the days, bro. It seemed like a good move. So that was it. I never imagined I'd be here so long, but I knew that I needed options and learning Chinese.
Matthew Lu (15:29)
Yeah, yeah, those were the days.
Jashy (15:44)
help me find one of those options Yeah.
Susan (15:47)
Yeah, I know you've told us the story a couple of times probably, but I think every time I hear it, lot of it does resonate. The idea of what is the American dream and like at what cost? What is that facade that people put up about America sometimes?
So moving
on then, you realized this at an early age while in high school. then you went to MIT. So tell us a little bit about your MIT experience and how that brought you eventually to China through the Shores Minister Scholars Program and eventually how that got you into becoming the engineer and entrepreneur you are now.
Jashy (16:08)
Thank
Thank
That's a loaded question, season. That's like 10 minutes of content. Okay. yeah. So, MIT, right? So, basically when I was 12 years old, I've always been a delinquent. Like I was always a troublemaker in class, up to sixth grade. I would throw books at kids.
Matthew Lu (16:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Jashy (16:44)
Cause one
also, seventh and eighth grade are the years that determine the caliber of public high school you can go to in Chicago. So it was like, okay, now's the time to work hard and set myself up or fall behind. So I had an English teacher in sixth grade. She made us do this assignment where we all created a pamphlet for a school, a college that we wanted to go to. And of course, none of us knew about colleges.
Matthew Lu (16:51)
Mm.
Jashy (17:07)
But at this point I knew what engineering was, because my mom always put me in these educational, and these summer programs, like a U Chicago math summer program, or a summer program at Northwestern for video game design or robotics. So I knew what engineering was. I was like, OK, well, then I did a Google search. And I was like, OK, MIT is the top engineering school. So maybe I'll just try to go there. So that's where it all started.
Matthew Lu (17:17)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (17:33)
That's, this is how it became serious and a good student. I ended up getting straight A's from that point. Graduated valedictorian of my grade school, got into Whitney Young, which is the top high school. And then just hustled, you know, from the first day I was at Whitney Young, everyone knew I wanted to go to MIT. it was not a secret. yeah, that little nerd over there. He's, he's trying to go there.
Matthew Lu (17:37)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, MIT kid.
Jashy (17:56)
was me. I annoyed the hell out of everybody. And yeah, I worked. I worked. I ended up getting in. Getting in at MIT actually was a different story. why did take me at
Matthew Lu (18:10)
Why do you think they took you?
Jashy (18:12)
a sanitized version of the story. So basically, I've done this program called MITES, where they send all of us underprivileged students to study at MIT for summer. And it was super cool. And this has always been a dream. I worked at everything I did in high school once to achieve admission to MIT. But that winter, I actually got waitlisted. And it was shocking, because I'm like, yo, like I've
Matthew Lu (18:31)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (18:37)
I've done everything. I've given my blood to this. So I remember I ended up, I had met the admissions while I was at MIT that summer and I ended up like emailing them. I'm just like, what happened? You know, I was like crying, I bawling my eyes out to my mom and my dad, I'm just bawling my eyes out. They're like, it's okay.
Matthew Lu (18:39)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
okay, okay. I thought you're crying and calling the admissions
Jashy (19:00)
yeah, and the admissions officer is like, look, man, if you think there's been a mistake, then why don't you reach out to the admin and see if anybody at your school can advocate for you. So I'm like, OK, OK, cool. So I ended up reaching out to, I think it was like the VP, principal, there was some admin at my school kind of explaining like, hey, I've been working towards this dream of MIT and like,
Matthew Lu (19:20)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Jashy (19:24)
It hasn't been going my way. you know, can you...
Yeah, can you talk to them? Can you arrange that? So what ends up happening is the admin, she like schedules a call with MIT, the admissions team. And the admissions team ends up telling her that I was waitlisted because I had low SAT 2 chemistry scores or something. And for me, was just like, yeah, it was like, that's the only thing.
Matthew Lu (19:46)
What? So random. What the heck?
Jashy (19:51)
Yeah. then
Matthew Lu (19:51)
Yeah.
Jashy (19:52)
then MIT had told my principal that they were considering two applicants from my school. It was me and one other applicant. So then my principal, she ends up, after that first call, she ends up sitting me down and just telling me what the situation was. Hey, they said your SAT two scores are low.
Matthew Lu (20:00)
Mmm.
Jashy (20:10)
Are they considering two applicants? What do you think? You think you're the better applicant? Or do you think you're of the caliber to handle MIT? And I end up telling her, yeah, hell yeah. Yes, let's go. So then she ends up having that follow-up conversation with the MIT admissions team. And she's like, yeah, Josh is the guy. Josh is that guy. And.
Matthew Lu (20:30)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (20:32)
Basically, that's how I got it. That's how I think I finally got into MIT was like that extra advocation. Yeah. Like me kind of speaking up, me not being happy, and me just pushing, trying to push to create the opportunity I wanted. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (20:36)
She advocated. Yeah.
Yeah. How did?
How did you convince her though? I mean, I'm sure it wasn't like what you just said right now. You're like, let's go. I'm that guy, right? How did you convince her? Or was it like that?
Jashy (21:03)
It was like that. mean, I think my school record was clear. I was like the math team kid, the orchestra kid, the theater kid who had damn near straight A's. one English teacher gave me a B, but damn near straight A's. like, you know, it wasn't, yeah. So I think, you know, you can do a record check and see I was, I was working, you know, you can see where I was from.
Matthew Lu (21:13)
Mmm.
We hate that
Jashy (21:29)
And you can be like, okay, kid, you want this shot? Do you want this shot or not? So yeah, she really stuck out her neck for me. And yeah, that's how I got into MIT. Like it was the hard work and it was speaking up and like really fighting to get that opportunity.
Matthew Lu (21:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
you did it and paid off
Jashy (21:48)
Yeah. And I think that's been a fundamental lesson for me. And as much as life is about you being capable and intelligent yourself, it's also about your PR and having the right connections to make things happen. So yeah, that's how I got into MIT.
Matthew Lu (22:00)
Mhm. Yeah. The...
And then.
was that like? After you got into MIT, things go smoothly? did you know what you wanted to do? what resources, opportunities you wanted to, you know, take advantage of or?
Jashy (22:22)
Yeah,
after I got in, dude, MIT beat my ass, School was so hard. It's so hard. I ended up finding a community for myself. was a small community inside of a dorm.
Matthew Lu (22:28)
yeah.
yeah.
Jashy (22:45)
called Chocolate City and basically were just a bunch of minority dudes from cities. Because at that time, when Chocolate City was created in 1975, the black population of MIT was like 3%, 4%, super low. So it was crucial for us to.
Matthew Lu (22:50)
It's called chocolate city
Mmm.
Jashy (23:08)
stick together, it's a Republican era in America. you know, still racial tensions on campus. So people have to look out for each other. So that's why it was created. And, I was thankful to have it when I ended up going to MIT, because it became a foundation for me to be able to do everything else I did, you know, being able to come home.
Matthew Lu (23:10)
75. Mmm.
Jashy (23:25)
crack a joke with the bros who like know where you're from. You guys all support each other. You study together, you party together. Invaluable. And yeah, and then MIT beat my ass. still had a good time though. MIT is the party school of Boston. So like the Harvard kids, the BU kids, like everybody's coming to MIT and like we got down, bro.
Matthew Lu (23:28)
Yeah.
Did you like it?
Mmm.
Jashy (23:48)
My Chocolate City, we threw the best parties in Boston. We would take over the MIT Student Center. We'd have 400, 500 kids from around the Boston area, just like in our student center getting lit, playing Migos, bro, we got down. Yeah, I ended up, I thought I was gonna do biomedical engineering for a bit, because I had a lot of interest in like.
Matthew Lu (23:48)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ my god.
haha
Jashy (24:13)
prosthetics, brain machine interfaces. people think all that Elon Musk company, Neuralink stuff is new, but that shit's been happening since 2013, right? I was already interested in it. But I ended up declaring mechanical engineering, because it was a little more broad. I liked the idea of creating physical products. was almost a genetic engineer as well. I had a summer internship where I was pipetting E. coli and modifying them to try to break down plastics.
Matthew Lu (24:33)
Mm.
Okay. It's very different from mech. Yeah.
Jashy (24:40)
But I'm like, nah, I can't do this.
can't do this. Biology is hard. Yeah. So I did Meki. Yeah. Meki is a little more creative. You create something out of nothing, a physical product. I love that part of it. I love the understanding of materials and stresses and strains and properties and robotic control schemes. Meki was fire, bro.
Matthew Lu (24:47)
It's not for
Jashy (25:05)
My favorite class was the one that kicked my ass the most. thermodynamics and fluid dynamics. I almost, I basically failed it and I had to drop it the first time I took it. But I ended up taking it again and it was so much more fun the second time. It was so awesome. Like understanding, entropy.
Matthew Lu (25:15)
⁓ crap.
Mmm.
Jashy (25:27)
you know, the chaos theory of like how particles spread and like radiation versus the other words and thermodynamics, I forget. It was was fun.
Matthew Lu (25:31)
Mm-hmm.
heat
Jashy (25:36)
Yeah.
So at MIT, I met this professor named Clara Konsaisen. She's this super small, lady, but she's got a heart of gold. we organized a faculty mixer, Chocolate City, and our professors. We'd invite them to our dorm and chat, free ball or whatever. And this professor showed up.
Matthew Lu (25:54)
⁓ cool.
Jashy (25:57)
And she has extensive experience in China. She'd been in China in the 80s. this lady, she's done the thing, bro. And I ended up chatting with her and, you know, I'm using my little basic Mandarin at that point. And she's like, I like your energy, Josh. I'm going to give you a chance, So she ends up inviting me to attend a two week.
Matthew Lu (26:04)
wow.
How long, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (26:26)
a theater seminar in Shanghai in 2016. So I ended up going there. That was my first time being in China, being in Shanghai. And I'm like, whoa, this is different, bro. Like, Shanghai was the city of the future with the Pearl Tower and the infrastructure, the size of the buildings, the train infrastructure itself is better than anything I've ever seen. It's crazy. And it was also this
Matthew Lu (26:31)
⁓
interesting.
Jashy (26:54)
juxtaposition of the old and the new. I don't know if you've ever been to Jing An temple in Shanghai, but it's this old ass temple and around it are the most modern buildings you've ever seen. I'm just like, is not the China they tell us about in the American news. This is different, bro. So I think from there, was like, okay, this is awesome. There's a lot more to see and explore here. we really don't have a full picture.
Matthew Lu (26:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is different. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jashy (27:22)
At that time, while with Professor Concisen, I ended up meeting some of the faculty who were responsible for creating the Swordsman program. So I heard about it before I even applied. So it was always a thing in the back of my head that could be a really cool opportunity to get out, spend some real time in China. so then from there.
It's 2017 now, I'm a senior year. I'm applying for all the fellowships. I ended up being a finalist for Rhodes and for Marshall. I also applied to Swordsman as well. The first two rejected me. So I think I went with Swordsman. But honestly, I think it was a much better fit for, well, I can say that now in hindsight, hindsight's always 2020.
Matthew Lu (27:53)
Nice. ⁓
Jashy (28:05)
But I ended up doing the Sworrispen program and it was awesome opportunity. Yeah,
Matthew Lu (28:14)
Mm-hmm
so once you got to Schwarzman, what was that program like? Is it more based off of classes or networking or, you know, what did you get out of Schwarzman? Would you say that's the most important thing that you have today?
Jashy (28:31)
Yeah, Swordsman Scholars, it was an incredible program. Swordsman Scholars is a one-year master's degree funded by Steve Swordsman, the CEO of Blackstone. So I guess, yeah, Blackstone, big money, And a big part of his investment portfolio was Asian properties, Asian investments.
For him, he had a fundamental understanding as a businessman of the importance of America continuing to have relationships with the world and with China in particular. So that's kind of the motivation of the Swordsman Scholars Program. For me, being there at Tsinghua University, which is effectively the MIT of China,
Matthew Lu (28:58)
Yeah.
Is it?
Jashy (29:10)
it's funny, right? Because Beijing is like Boston, right? Harvard and MIT are like a mile away. University, Peking University and Tsinghua are a mile away. Peking University focuses on the policy, the soft skills, arts, literature, blah, blah, blah.
Matthew Lu (29:15)
Mmm, right, right.
Jashy (29:27)
And then Tsinghua is where the engineers are. And of course, similar to Harvard and MIT, Harvard is where all the presidents are from And then MIT is where all the Harvard nerds are from. So They do function that way. Yeah, Tsinghua was awesome. The Swarson program was a great introduction to what is contemporary China in terms of understanding its form of governance, the economy.
Matthew Lu (29:33)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (29:52)
the levers by which people who work in the government, people who work in a society, entrepreneurs, what are the levers that motivate them to work? How do they need to navigate? And then, even understanding the contemporary history of how to try and get to where it is today from the fall of the Qing dynasty in what, 1909 or 1911 up into World War II, the clash between what is now Taiwan, Womingtang, and
Matthew Lu (30:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (30:20)
the communists, like the clash in that history, the formation of 1949, the, creation of China. Awesome. Cause you know, I think as a foreigner looking at China, you're like, why, Why are the cameras everywhere? Why is there such a focus on stability and control in this society? Well,
Matthew Lu (30:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jashy (30:45)
Like, there've been so many revolutions that have just started from a little idea spreading like wildfire, right? There was the Boxer Revolution in early 1900s where the Chinese revolted against the imperial influences here and then they cracked down hard and killed everyone. And by them, I mean the Western influences killed a lot of people here. So in any case, understanding this contemporary context.
Matthew Lu (30:51)
Exactly.
Mm.
Jashy (31:08)
really explains what is modern China today. So for me, that was invaluable. The Swarovski Scholars Network itself, you know, so many down earth people from all walks of life, you've got politicians there, you've got people who want to be the general of the US Army there, you've got entrepreneurs, know, economists, you've got, you've got like sugar, sugar children. Is that that's not a word? Nepal babies, that's a word.
Matthew Lu (31:17)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ okay.
sugar sugar
sugar babies sugar daddy that's the different thing
Jashy (31:37)
Yeah, you got sugar babies, NEPO babies.
Yeah, it was awesome. And being in the Qingla community, know, being around like the brightest students in China, just great. Just a really fun time. I ended up studying Wing Chun. was studying that for like half a year. Yeah, dude.
Matthew Lu (31:50)
Mmm.
⁓ Wing Chun Like the Bruce Lee stuff,
Jashy (32:02)
I was doing that EAT MAN stuff, bros. I was terrible
Matthew Lu (32:02)
right? ⁓ man
Jashy (32:06)
at it, but it was fun. Only it swores me, man. Yeah. I'm very thankful for that program. that became my foot into the door in China. Without the Sworesman program, I don't know if I could have stayed because I didn't have any work experience. You need minimum two years of work experience to get a work visa in China. But because I had Tsinghua on my resume, I was allowed to stay and actually...
Matthew Lu (32:08)
Only at Schwartzman,
Jashy (32:30)
start working in Shenzhen. So yeah, great program and the alumni community awesome is, yeah, the alumni community also is just God an incredible resource for helping push you, motivate you and also connect you to the things that'll help you do what you're trying to do. So yeah, it's been great. It's been great.
Matthew Lu (32:33)
Wow, interesting.
Matthew Lu (32:49)
So now that we've talked about your journey to China and how the Schwarzman program prepared you to do that. I'm also curious in learning a little bit more about how the experience of living in China was apart from, your duties as a student. But, what was it like moving into a country that is largely ethnically homogenous, especially coming from the United States?
And also what were your experiences like, as someone who's African-American, and maneuvering in, an environment, where you might get a lot of different stares.
Jashy (33:26)
I'm triggered. okay. Yeah. it's so I would say like being in Swordsman, can be pretty isolating sometimes, right? Because, you know, as a foreigner, it's hard to navigate Chinese society, like from zero. you don't have friends, don't have connections, you don't know how to move about, you don't know how things work. but I think it was always important for me to get out of the college as much as I could. I was always in like,
Matthew Lu (33:27)
I remember those
Tough times.
Jashy (33:48)
business networking events or like in the club. Like that was always without meeting people. Like yeah, building my own community. But I do think understanding.
Matthew Lu (33:51)
in the club.
Jashy (33:59)
The differences between China and America, it was painful sometimes, right? I remember a story where it was one of our, one of my classmates birthday and we wanted to go downtown and we're trying to get into this club and they let all the whites in the club, but then they looked at us, me and like my Latin American friends and they're like, no, we don't want you guys in the club. And I'm just like, why? Like, weishima. And then this, this bouncing like mei weishima, mei weishima.
Matthew Lu (34:16)
Damn.
Uh-huh.
Holy crap.
Jashy (34:26)
And bro, I was heated. Like I was still, like at this age, I was still kind of a firebrand. I was kind of like, the American government systematically destroyed my community. I was always triggered. so this has got me immediately. I spent the next 24 hours just fuming, like crying, half crying to the other black people in Swarovski.
Matthew Lu (34:26)
Damn.
You're ready to throw
fuming.
Jashy (34:49)
half just what is this world? But, you know, I think over time, you learn to contextualize it, you learn to conceptualize why the Chinese take pictures of you every time they see you in public, why they touch your hair, why they make the assumptions they make about you. And for me to contextualization has, you can sum it down to
Matthew Lu (35:07)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (35:13)
There is a such thing as there are different types of ignorance, Different types of prejudice. think the ignorance and prejudice you encounter in China is a result of a lack of exposure, right? This society is so homogeneous. And I think that's something we as Americans take for granted is how diverse and colorful our world is. But China is not that case, right? So for a lot of these people I'm interacting with, it's probably their first time seeing a Black person. Their first time seeing a Black person with dreads. So it's like, what is that?
Matthew Lu (35:17)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jashy (35:42)
Or they've got preconceived notions from the 90s American movies they saw and they're like, all blacks are evil. Stay away from that. And it is what it is. It's a much different type of prejudice than, absolutely, the component of the one belt, one road scheme. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (35:42)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm.
There's also the Africa component, right?
which is very different from your experience. But it still impacts,
you know, how people see you, right? Which is quite absurd, I'm sure in some ways.
Jashy (36:08)
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, a lot of people think I'm African, which is not it's not like it's an insult or anything. But Yeah. In any case, I think moving about society, it's about contextualization.
It still gets hard sometimes, right? I've been in more rural parts of China and the intense staring, right? You walk through the crowd and they're breaking their necks to look at you yeah, but it's
Matthew Lu (36:32)
I mean, I have a mutual
story that involves you. I remember staying over at your apartment once in Shenzhen and you live in like a pretty local residential complex, like Chenzhong Cun, right?
It's very dense There's people of all different age groups and I think we were going to get brunch or something in a restaurant in that area and I just remember everybody staring at us and I'm not used to that in China, but I got a sense I got a taste of what it's like to be you in the area that you live in which I mean it was very uncomfortable and I think that feeling I stay with me like
Jashy (37:10)
Hahaha
Matthew Lu (37:11)
It's just so peculiar, you know, because I don't even face that in America in Chicago There aren't that many Asians but it's not weird to have an Asian person right show up or whatever but in China sometimes it is very extreme like that and whether or not people mean well or Are just curious or they don't really just they don't know how to respond
Jashy (37:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Matthew Lu (37:34)
something that they've never seen before from your perspective it's very strange i can attest
Jashy (37:38)
Yeah, for sure, man. Yeah,
you know, and it used to make me super angry, you know, I would put on this this shell, you know, I'd walk around don't interact with me like I have fire in the eyes, like, stared my stare back, try burning them like lighting them on fire with my eyes. at a certain point is it is what it is
If this is my decision to stay here, these are things you have to accept. The fact that there very few of you here and people are trying to figure out how to interact with you. Yeah. I mean, even to this day, it's been seven years. It bothers me a lot less. I mean, all of it, right. And my Mandarin's at a point where it's like, before they have a chance to say or do something I'm already talking to you in your own language.
Matthew Lu (38:00)
Mm-hmm.
exactly.
Jashy (38:27)
So I think that's helped a lot. but even still, you know, with my Apple job, I spent a lot of time at Foxconn, So like showing up to work every day, the security guards, the factory workers, they're breaking their necks and they're looking, right? But then when you contextualize it, these are people who come from, likely come from more rural parts of China who've moved to Foxconn for that employment opportunity.
Interacting with very very few foreigners in their lives. So yeah, dude, you stick out, know So even as they're staring as they're making a little haha, look at that black guy, you know, cuz the dudes always laugh I don't know why that freaking laugh, but it's fine, man. I mean it's It's the world and I've chosen to be here, you know to challenge myself to do something weird and It's just part of that. It's a part of that that experience. Yeah
Matthew Lu (38:57)
Mm-hmm.
Ha ha ha.
What's the weirdest shit that's ever happened to you? Like by nature of being a black expat in China.
Jashy (39:27)
Bam. I'm gonna pick the one. No, no, it's, dude, this is peak. So it was when I used to live in that little urban village. At this point, I'm still broke as hell. So I couldn't afford an Apple iPhone. So I was buying Huawei everything. So I was upgrading to the latest Huawei phone that was, it wasn't even that good, but I needed a new phone for some reason.
Matthew Lu (39:30)
It doesn't have to be like negative, but just like
Mmm.
man.
Jashy (39:51)
So I walk in a Huawei store in this little urban village. at this point, my Chinese is workable. So I'm just talking to this guy, and he's, again, he's probably never seen a foreigner. so in Mandarin, he's like, wow, look at you, you're so handsome and strong. Where are you from? And I'm like, hey, I'm Josh, I'm from Chicago. And he's like, wow, welcome to China. I love your people. And he's showing me all the phones and stuff, he's showing me all the fancy phones.
Matthew Lu (40:07)
No.
Wow.
Jashy (40:18)
And he's like, hey, are you a Chinese girl? And
So I'm like, no, man, I'm not dating And he's like, bro, you should be dating a Chinese What you need to do is date an impregnated Chinese so you can get your genes into the Chinese genetic pool. And you will help us create the next Olympic athletes. And I'm like, whoa, yo, what?
Matthew Lu (40:37)
Whoa.
my god
Jashy (40:44)
I'm like, maybe I need to do that for China, bro. What do you say to that? I don't know.
Matthew Lu (40:48)
Dang.
Like, that's like a,
that's quite a bit of goodwill, I suppose. Exerted in a very strange direction. Yeah. He has a vision.
Jashy (40:57)
I so, some goodwill. I don't know if eugenics is the word
for it, utilitarian. Yeah. ⁓ my God. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (41:03)
Mm-hmm. This guy has a vision this worker at the Huawei store like in the random
village
Jashy (41:09)
He's very prescient. Who's the mixed blood skateboarder or snowboarder for the Chinese Olympics? Yeah, he wanted me to make a black Eileen Goo basically. I don't know if that would work, but.
Matthew Lu (41:18)
Yeah.
⁓ Okay.
Jashy (41:25)
Yeah man. Oh yeah.
Matthew Lu (41:27)
Insane. I've never heard that one.
goodness.
Jashy (41:30)
big time.
Matthew Lu (41:30)
neither
positive or negative, just strange and interesting,
Jashy (41:35)
Sure.
Matthew Lu (41:36)
Well, that was a very interesting tangent, but I would like to learn about what was the path that you took career wise once you were in Shenzhen? Walk us through some of the different roles and experiences that you had and how that eventually led to you starting your own
consulting business in manufacturing and supply chain.
Jashy (42:02)
So in 2019, I was looking at so many different job opportunities coming out of Swarming. know, Shenzhen is the factory of the world. It's the R &D center of the world. And as such, every major American company that makes physical product has representation here. R &D. So Apple R &D, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, all these products, they're being built.
Matthew Lu (42:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (42:27)
in Shenzhen in Guangdong province of China. So I wanted to tap into that. I'm already in China, I have this engineering background. me see how far I can take this. Let me get a feel for what does it mean to be in Chinese manufacturing. So I ended up taking my first job, which was at a small hardware design company in Shenzhen. So at this job, we basically helped foreign companies design, build,
their own consumer electronic devices. we had our in-house design teams, in-house engineering teams, in-house sourcing and supply chain teams, and we would execute for foreigners. My role was half mechanical engineer and half project manager, which means that half of the time I was the one using SolidWorks and designing the mechanical enclosure for a consumer electronic product. designing, for example, for a smart ring,
Matthew Lu (43:14)
Mm.
Jashy (43:17)
I'm creating four different SKUs, you know, creating the 3D representation of what it looks like and where all the internal electronic components would fit and then how it all come together. for like a touchscreen panel for this. We had a touchscreen panel that was being used to like control the VR headset. So, you know, what does this housing look like? is this an injection molding process? How will it be assembled?
Matthew Lu (43:29)
Mmm.
Jashy (43:38)
Yeah, so that was half of my job and the other half of my job was project management. So I'm directly interacting with my Chinese supply chain and my Chinese engineering teams who don't speak English to manufacture these products directly interacting with these factories and these external supply chains to give deliveries since or whatever we're trying to do at the time. So it was an incredible opportunity because it was honestly
trial by fire type shit, bro. it's like, if I don't learn Mandarin at an engineering level to do this role, I can't do my job. I'm not, I am not contributing to what this company is doing. So yeah, it was great for getting my skills closer to where they needed to be to be, be able to conduct engineering business in China. So after that, around 2021, I kind of had enough of
Matthew Lu (44:02)
Yeah.
Jashy (44:22)
working there, I'm looking for something different. So I ended up applying for and then joining Apple. So from 2021 to now, I've been working at Apple as an R &D project manager, meaning that I'm essentially a firefighter. We focus on creating the cameras, the cameras or the depth module sensors for Apple products. So we're creating cameras for iPads, iPhones, Macs. And my role is
Matthew Lu (44:32)
Mm.
Jashy (44:50)
as a project manager who lives in Shenzhen, to make sure everything goes smoothly. My two KPIs are, is my product delivered at the right quantity to the next station to be assembled on iPhone, is it delivered at the right quantity and at the right quality and on time. If these KPIs are met, I will be paid. If they are not met, I need to make sure they are met. anything from like an upstream logistics issue to a factory internal human resources
Matthew Lu (44:54)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (45:15)
some process that has gone incorrect, that's creating faulty products, or to even a fundamental design issue that's coming from our own Apple internal team that needs to be driven upstream and corrected. I need to make sure that at the very least the right player is in a room to solve that issue so that I can send my stuff out on time. So it's been dope. Work for Apple, work for Apple China, because I won't talk about Apple Cupertino, that's a different word culture. I think they're all crazy.
Matthew Lu (45:40)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (45:41)
But Apple China,
Apple China, God, everyone works so hard. Everyone works together. So it's a collaborative environment. And it's the type of environment where if you tell somebody you need something done, they're going to do it. They're going to go out of their way to help you to achieve your goal. Because we're all in this together. I love that energy and that spirit. And that's something I try to bring to everything I do now. It's not combative. It's not as much about the politics as it is about we're in this together.
Matthew Lu (46:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (46:06)
we're fighting together to create the best products you can create. So yeah, it's been an absolute joy. So then from there, concurrently,
Matthew Lu (46:12)
Mm.
Jashy (46:15)
Last year, me and Susan created the Sparrows, So, that's a manufacturing consultancy. a sparrow. It's a small bird. but it's small and mighty, you know, it has nothing to do with Jack Sparrow. I promise.
Matthew Lu (46:19)
What is a sparrow?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. You're aesthetic.
Jashy (46:30)
But yeah, at the Spares we're manufacturer consultancy. So we basically try to represent the interests of international clients in Chinese manufacturing. over 2024, we've had four or five super interesting engagements with customers from all over the world, US, Canada, India, Africa. It's been awesome. We're a small team, we're a team of three effectively, but the things we've been able to do in such a short amount of time.
from making 150,000 pads and sending them to Sierra Leone to partnering with a major, American NGO to develop medical devices. we're a team of three, but we're getting such good feedback from the little things you've done so far. It's just I, I'm so pumped for what's coming next. ⁓ so, you know, I, I'll be going full time with the Sparrows, June.
Matthew Lu (47:07)
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Jashy (47:23)
That's the target. man, I basically have two jobs now, right? Because I work at Apple from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. And then, you know, after 5 p.m., my Sparrow's job starts. So now, I'm working with my partners to do lead generation, to do these client introduction calls, to prepare proposals, and then to create like a social media presence for our brand. then
Matthew Lu (47:24)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (47:47)
you know, stepping in. yeah, it's tiring, but exciting. And the team we've built, the cohesion is so cool. basically, we've got like, I call her the godmother, right? So we've got one person who's the godmother, right? She's been in supply chain for like 20 years in China,
Matthew Lu (47:50)
but it's fulfilling, I'm sure.
You
Jashy (48:10)
She knows how to find vendors. She knows how to do quality control. She's on the site taking care of business, bro. She'd be out there like, I need you to re-inspect the thickness of that packaging because that's not meeting my expectation. And what's the tolerance of the production process? It's at 0.1 millimeters? And I'm like, yo fam, chill. It's a box, but she goes hard. She goes so hard. And then we've got like the other partner.
Matthew Lu (48:11)
Mm-hmm.
You
Wow.
Ha
That's intense.
Jashy (48:38)
who's, also my little sister from MIT. I don't know she wants to reveal herself or not here, but you know, she's like the operations and she's the project manager. So she's driving these projects to completion. She's interacting with the clients. She's making sure that we're getting all our needs met on time and, and then handling some of the internal operations. And, then that leaves room for me to be
the face, like the one who talks the shit, who's at the event, who's trying to get more visibility for us so that they can do the work that they do so well, you know? So I thought I'd actually be doing more, more engineering, more of the actual work in this type of company. But honestly, I'm very happy with this arrangement. I think everybody's contributing as necessary, you know? We step in to support each other.
Matthew Lu (49:14)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ You're the figurehead now.
Jashy (49:21)
Yeah, so I know they're like cool moments though, where I get to step in and have meaningful contributions, right? So where it's there's one client, we have to create a quality control standard for their product. They didn't know how to do it. And I had an idea of how to do it, because I've seen it at Apple. So I'm like, okay, let's sit down and write up some stuff, so I ended up drafting it for them, then, my team would go to these factories and do the execution and make sure things are done correctly and
Matthew Lu (49:26)
Mm-hmm.
⁓
gotcha.
Jashy (49:45)
Or there are other moments where for another client, it's like, wanted us to have a certain food grade testing for the product. But the test arrangement, it didn't quite hit what they were expecting. they were expecting a certain level of testing, but it was a little below. So my team is like, oh my God, what do we do? And I'm just like, yo fam, chill. Let me just talk to them real quick. Let me just talk to them real quick. We're gonna be good.
Matthew Lu (50:08)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jashy (50:12)
I know at the end of the day, the client, everything's all good. know, these, these clients are awesome people. um, it's about, it's just about maintaining trust, maintaining your integrity, putting your best foot forward. And if you make a misstep, honestly, as long as clients feel like you're giving it your all and you're going to go out of your way to correct it. I think every misstep can be accounted for, then you, you build your own reputation.
Matthew Lu (50:12)
Yeah.
Jashy (50:38)
It just grows from there. So yeah, man, super pumped, super excited. I'm very thankful for the team I have and excited for 2025.
Matthew Lu (50:47)
Mm-hmm.
That's awesome, man. Really wishing you the best. That seems like a very great opportunity for you to keep growing and then also utilize your Chinese, your China expertise, as well as your technical expertise and connecting those things together, to create bridges between China and the rest of the world.
Jashy (51:03)
Leslie bro.
Matthew Lu (51:06)
So what is your outlook on China now? Would you recommend young people to visit, to work here, or to live here for a period of time?
Jashy (51:17)
I would recommend.
Let's start with another thesis. Type shit. China manufacturing won't be replaced in the next decade, despite what the West is trying so hard to do. And that's for four, minimum different reasons. Reason number one is that China has such an ingrained supply chain here. This is the only country in the world where you can
Matthew Lu (51:21)
Mm-hmm feel free to add caveats
Jashy (51:42)
build a product from front to back without having to import anything, right? Everything can be built within its country's own borders, which is an incredible feat of supply chain of engineering, of expertise of an industry developing over the last 45 years. it's, it's not easily replaceable.
Matthew Lu (51:49)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (52:01)
Number two, the Chinese work ethic is insane.
Point number three is the level of education in these different countries, right? The Chinese are hyper-educated. Everyone has master's degrees here. So when it comes to finding engineers who have the background necessary to run a manufacturing operation or to be technicians or to be process engineers, easy to find, very easy to find here.
I think there's another point. let's call it costs and efficiencies. So yes, it is the case where exporting your manufacturing to a place like
Vietnam or Thailand, the cost of labor are lower for certain. But because of the points I just mentioned, you're taking efficiency hits. So what a Chinese company can do in a day, if a Chinese company create 10,000, maybe at one of these other countries that are still developing their infrastructures, they can only do 500 or 600. Right? So when you're working at like the scale of a medium to large enterprise, these are hits. These are hits on your ability to produce on time and
Matthew Lu (52:48)
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (53:02)
reach your target market. So yeah, because of these reasons and more that I'm currently forgetting, I think the Chinese have, a moat on manufacturing that no amount of tariffs from our fearless leader and president will change. So I say that to say, for me, China is something that is to be understood.
Matthew Lu (53:16)
Mm.
Jashy (53:23)
I hope that everyone would have an opportunity to come here and visit and work and live. But at the very least, I would ask that everyone try to have an exposure to China that isn't coming from American mainstream media. It's just not representative of what's actually happening here. It's not to say that China is perfect. By no means is it perfect, it's a perfect society, but it is a formidable society and it will not be...
so easily impacted by these moves. And also, dude, mean, you guys already know this, but we're so intertwined as countries and economies. Taking this trade war to a logical extreme, if it ever went to logical extreme, would be embargoes on whole Chinese products or
if you're on the thing about the military expansion or whatever, blah, war, right? People are always talking about U.S. China incoming war. What that would do to the American economy. Number one. An actual conflict like that that goes past tariffs. Apple is dead immediately. The American S &P 500 stinks like people's pensions are impacted. Right. The economic ramifications of
Matthew Lu (54:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (54:40)
Pushing this conflict any further would hurt all of us. And I don't think people think about that enough. just like, yeah, they're Chinese. We'll just take it all back. No, Apple is dead. A hundred percent. Microsoft is crawling, struggling. Like Amazon will be struggling. it's, yeah, people take it for granted, but this is not, this is not so easy to unentrench. This is way past that point, you know?
Matthew Lu (54:51)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jashy (55:09)
Yeah.
So I plan the dream now, short to medium term is economic freedom and freedom of location. think that if, when my company is successful, I can be based anywhere and be meaningfully helping to bring the globe to China.
Matthew Lu (55:10)
What's the dream?
Jashy (55:31)
in terms of manufacturing. I think ideally, like at this point, I've been in Shenzhen six years, this feels like a second home. This is the longest place I've ever lived outside of Chicago. So I'm very fond of my life being half between Shenzhen and America for the rest of my life. I'm good. This is already awesome for me. So that's what I hope to be doing. know, I enjoy the process of,
connecting people and helping to translate ideas from one party to the other. I enjoy the process of visiting factories and understanding, what is motivating this factory boss? How do I get them to, how do I incentivize them to want to work with this foreign company? How do I build a sense of mutual trust and reciprocity where everyone wins? Actually wins, like, you know, no bullshit, right? Everyone wins. And this is a...
This is a fun journey for me. the more and more the Sparrows operates, the more I realize there is very few, if any, company that is doing what we're doing the way we're doing it. So that excites me. I hope to be the bridge, and continue to be the bridge.
Matthew Lu (56:35)
Mm-hmm.
That's Great. So before we wrap up here, you just have like an opportunity for you to share any advice that you have for young people or any recommendations or self plug any of your accounts and platforms and websites on the things that you're working on. So feel free to share with our listeners, whatever it is that you want to share.
Jashy (57:02)
yeah.
I mean, I say for any young person that's watching, don't take your 20s for granted. For me, I was blessed that my parents loved me so much that they spent their 401k on my MIT degree. I'm still angry at them for that. But they did it, which means that I graduated MIT with no debt, which means that I am a
Matthew Lu (57:22)
Mmm.
Yeah.
huge.
Jashy (57:32)
Yeah, I'm a 22 year old in the world with no debt, no family, no marriage, no responsibility to anybody but myself. So I can do crazy shit like live in China for all of COVID with no repercussions. Right. But I feel like I would never have done this if I was in my 30s or my 40s. There's no way. Because at that point, I've probably already bought a house. Like I've probably already made investments. I have things that need to be paid off. Time is ticking for one reason or another.
Matthew Lu (57:46)
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Jashy (58:02)
But at 22 years old, there is nothing, you know? So do crazy shit. Like, just go be in the world. Go try something weird, right? Just do whatever you want. Because eventually it'll all make sense. It doesn't have to make sense now, you know? Like, and that was my philosophy. I think that's why I've stayed for so long. I'm just like, yo, balls to the wall. I have nothing to lose. Like, take a...
Matthew Lu (58:10)
Mm-hmm.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Jashy (58:29)
25k USD a year job because I can because that's gonna differentiate me in the future when it comes to someone who knows how China manufacturing works So yeah, man, I would say for any young person listening like crazy shit when you're young and when you can afford to Because you have nothing to lose we all we feel like we're on such a time crunch to get our money up and to and then it's reasonable for people like it's the pressure of living in America the financial
Matthew Lu (58:43)
Yep.
Jashy (58:55)
you know, the financial terror that we're all under there. It makes a lot of sense, but
Matthew Lu (58:55)
Yeah Chipotle is over $20 a
bowl man Insane that's yeah
Jashy (59:02)
That's insane. That's insane, bro.
Damn, I remember when I was like in the San Fran airport last year, bro. I was buying a burger. That burger was $30, bro, for a basic ass burger in the airport. Almost flipped, bro. Like, what, in any case, America's gone crazy. But as much as we can, like, I think we need to be taking risks. You know, I'm not one of the Apple employees who fanboys over Steve Jobs, but there's one thing I liked that he said a lot. He said that,
Matthew Lu (59:07)
Never going back.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (59:34)
we don't connect the dots moving forward, we connect the dots looking back. So by that Steve Jobs meant that in college, like did a dude study typography, studied liberal arts, right? He studied business. He just studied a bunch of random stuff, right? Apple wasn't even like an inkling, I think at this point. But right around the time when he was creating Apple and trying to differentiate Apple from Microsoft, which was the other existing player at the time for personal computers,
Matthew Lu (59:40)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Jashy (1:00:01)
He had enough of an understanding for typography, for liberal arts, for the arts itself, where he's like, I want a product that facilitates, that has an aesthetic, that has a visual language for itself, that stands out from the things I'm seeing. And that appreciation for aesthetics, for art, for quality, I think that has been the driving force that differentiates Apple moving forward. And it's all because Steve Jobs is weird as hell and studied all types of art stuff when he was our age.
Matthew Lu (1:00:28)
Yeah.
Jashy (1:00:29)
And all of that eventually ended up contributing to differentiating his end product at 30 years of age. So gotta be weird. Gotta do crazy shit. Yeah.
Matthew Lu (1:00:34)
Mm-hmm.
And he wasn't afraid to be himself, you right? You can't be afraid to be yourself,
basically.
Jashy (1:00:46)
Facts, bro. So yeah, be weird, do crazy shit. It doesn't have to make sense, but it'll probably make sense eventually. And it's okay. I think that's my message for the youth. And follow my IG, Josh. I think J-A-S-H-S-P-A-R-R-O-W-S. Again, I'm gonna try to show you guys like.
Matthew Lu (1:00:55)
Mmm.
Jashy (1:01:08)
China manufacturing, right? I'll teach you guys about Chinese proverbs. I'll give you guys like insights. It's like what it means to live and work here. And hopefully you or your friends become my clients in the future. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pragmatic. I give you free value and maybe you pay me hell of money in the future.
Matthew Lu (1:01:19)
ooooh very pragmatic
Matthew Lu (1:01:30)
those are some great insights and thank you for sharing that. think a lot of young people in their early twenties would probably find a lot of help and comfort in those words. So before we kind of cap off our session for today, I just wanted to leave some time for all of us to share any recommendations of interesting books, media, topics or ideas that we've come into contact with recently. I can go first.
Matthew Lu (1:02:00)
Yeah, so this year I've made it a goal for myself to start writing more, whether that's reviews of my favorite albums or poems or short stories. And, I found that it can be kind of hard to sit on inspiration if you're not used to writing often. But a source of inspiration that I've had just to find the motivation to write more regularly is this book called
on writing by Stephen King, And this is basically his love letter to writing based off of a personal memoir of his relationship with writing. And throughout this book, you can learn about
him, his life, what molded him to become the writer that he became, as well as all of the tips and expertise that he's acquired that he's kind of just sharing through the portrayal of his life, which I think is really helpful. It's also a very easy read, unlike a very specific, writing guide, because it kind of reads as a biography in some ways.
this is definitely something that I would recommend to people who are interested in writing their own things and people who have very specific idea of what is good writing or when is it appropriate to write. Stephen King can give a lot of perspective to break through all of those limitations. So yeah, it's my rec. You, Susan?
Jashy (1:03:15)
Awesome.
Matthew Lu (1:03:18)
So I recently just got back from Cambridge and whenever I'm in town, one of the things I do is visit some of my favorite bookstores. There really some great ones in the Cambridge Boston area. And my favorite is probably the Harvard Bookstore right in Harvard Square. I could spend hours there. So I picked up a few books during this trip and one of them was Behind You Is the Sea. It's by, apologies for butchering the name, but Susan Waddy-
Daraash, and it's a novel about three Palestinian-American families, and basically touching upon their everyday lives and just how they live as Americans, but also as children and relatives of Palestinian immigrants. And what I really liked about this book is that
given the conflict,
it was very refreshing to get something that's outside the realm of stereotypes about Palestinian culture.
And like the description says, behind you to see faces stereotypes about Palestinian culture head on, shifting perspectives to weave a complex social fabric, replete with weddings, funerals, broken hearts, and devastating secrets. So that would be my recommendation for this session. I really enjoyed the book, made for a great read during an 11 hour ride on the airplane. So now I'll pass it on to you, Josh.
Matthew Lu (1:04:44)
Awesome.
Jashy (1:04:45)
So there's this book called The World for Sale. This book is basically about the commodity traders behind the scenes who acts kind of like contemporary pirates, brokering, negotiating deals and sales of commodities across country borders, across military conflicts, across embargoed territories from one place to the other. And in doing so,
Matthew Lu (1:04:49)
Hmm.
Jashy (1:05:10)
driving the world economy and getting stupid rich. Right? So this book talks about commodity traders who snuck past the South African embargo placed because of apartheid that the world placed on South Africa for apartheid secretly selling oil to South Africa. Or it talks about how they in the back door negotiated trades during peak Cold War era, USSR.
like negotiating trades of oil and food, you know, taking a risky visit to like a city on a, on the border of the USSR. and then, they could have been just taken, they could have been disappeared, right? But they're doing this for the money, bro. They're, they're making crazy moves for the money. And it's for me, it's just so,
Matthew Lu (1:05:51)
Yeah, the love of the money.
Jashy (1:06:01)
eye-opening, right? Like we hear these big picture narratives about what does it mean to be successful, you know, to start this company, to get VC funding, to create these entities. But what we don't see are the players in the shadows who are pulling all the strings and making things happen that we wouldn't even believe. You know, these are the type of people who were like negotiating, negotiating directly with like the Saudi Arabia, like the oil states, you know, and like
Matthew Lu (1:06:09)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jashy (1:06:27)
sometimes on America's behalf, you know, driving oil prices down to be sustainable for our country or you know, creating market opportunities as market makers for us to be the oil consuming monster that we are as a country. It's mental. So I would recommend everybody check that book out.
Matthew Lu (1:06:44)
Awesome. Who is it by? Do you have the author on the?
Jashy (1:06:49)
The World For Sale by Javier Blas and Jack Farchi. Javier, J-A-V-I-E-R-B-L-A-S and Jack, F-A-R-C-H-Y. It's crazy. It's crazy stuff.
Matthew Lu (1:06:57)
Awesome.
crazy. I got to add that to my list. Thanks for the rec man. Cool. Well, that was a lot of fun. Thanks for coming. And Really glad to have you know, heard about your experience and learned a lot of new stuff about you too. Even though we've known each other for a really long time.
Jashy (1:07:09)
Yeah, bro. No worries, bro.
Yeah
Yeah.
Really?
I'm glad you guys had fun. I had fun.
Matthew Lu (1:07:28)
That's a wrap on today's episode of Liminal Space, where we discover the thresholds of culture, identity, and experience. If our conversation resonated with you, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share your own story. We love to hear what you've discovered in the spaces in between. Join us next time as we continue to explore what it means to live in the liminal. Bye-bye.
中文翻译
Matthew Lu (00:25)
欢迎收听《临界空间》（Liminal Space）。在这里，我们探讨身份、文化与体验的临界点。我是刘晨曦（Matthew Liu），节目联合主持人。和我的搭档 Susan 一起，我们为那些在文化、世界或思想夹缝中穿梭的人创办了本节目。每一期，我们都深入倾听生活在边缘地带的人们，讲述当代中国故事的丰富与复杂。
Jashy (00:42)
谢谢。
Matthew Lu (00:52)
无论是侨民之声、第三文化孩子，还是连接中国与世界、传统与创新的桥梁人物，都会在此发声。欢迎与我们一起进入这一小小空间，在过渡、灰色与蜕变的瞬间中寻找意义。
Jashy (01:08)
呃。
Susan (01:10)
今天，我们很荣幸邀请到 Joshua Charles Woodard——我们的好友，也是一位“现代文艺复兴人”。Josh 兼具工程师、企业家、摄影师、小提琴手和夜生活玩家多重身份；他自芝加哥 Whitney Young 高中起描绘“中国梦”，从 MIT 一路来到北京，成为苏世民学者。Josh 涉足从自创供应链咨询公司到在深圳举办最火派对等多个领域。话不多说，欢迎做客！
Jashy (01:46)
大家好，兄弟姐妹们，今天 怎么样？鼓掌刷波关注！
Matthew Lu (01:47)
欢迎！能来真的很高兴。
社交媒体与“小红书”
Susan (01:53)
我一直在 Instagram 关注你——@jashsparrows，看到你正在把内容慢慢搬到小红书。体验如何？
Jashy (02:17)
就社交媒体而言，现在想真正抓住用户，你得有人格化；不能只靠一个酷炫品牌，而是要在 Instagram、TikTok 这些平台上打造让人愿意追随的“人设”。没人愿意被硬广洗脑。若能提供有趣且可分享的内容，久而久之就能累积品牌信任与认知，希望最终为 Sparrows 制造咨询的潜在客户。
我现在做两类视频：一是工厂探访，二是讲中国成语。成语类很高效，花两三个小时就能完成，还能顺便学知识。
Matthew Lu (03:36)
那 Red Note（小红书）与 Instagram、TikTok 相比在产品设计或内容偏好上有什么不同？
Jashy (03:40)
各平台对应不同“脑退化”等级（笑）。TikTok 是碎片化到极致的重度娱乐；Instagram 内容节奏稍慢、更丰富；而小红书更像中文语境下的 Instagram，加点长文/吐槽风，带剪辑片段穿插。我还在摸索，但从零开始发三四条视频，就能每天涨粉——虽然现在才 25 个粉，但游戏规则不同嘛。
Matthew Lu (05:01)
不错，起步总要有。小红书不能放外链，有点像微信的小生态闭环。
Susan (05:37)
对，很多中国应用都有类似限制。那你为什么突然想当起“把美国人带进中国卫生巾工厂”的博主？
Jashy (06:17)
之前拍那条我走进卫生巾工厂的短片，大家超爱。一个黑人小伙解说女性卫生巾生产线，本身就很反差。大家喜欢这种怪诞。我觉得应该做更多类似内容。
创办 The Sparrows 的缘起
Jashy (06:51)
2023 年我在 Apple 干腻了。跨国供应链协作不仅是语言差异，还有文化鸿沟。外界对中国商业逻辑缺乏理解，而我已在中国深耕七年，看到了机会。于是 Sparrows 诞生：一家制造业咨询公司，帮助国际客户在亚洲寻找、落地并管控供应链；从概念到量产全流程都能插手。
童年、MIT 与苏世民学者
Matthew Lu (09:13)
回到更早：作为美国高中生，你为何把“去中国”写进人生目标？
Jashy (09:38)
我在芝加哥南区的贫困且暴力的社区长大。若不自救，可能就命丧街头。12 岁时我立志 MIT；14 岁在 Whitney Young 选修语言时，觉得中文最有“钱途”——当时中国资本疯狂收购美国资产，我不想被落下。对文化毫无浪漫幻想，纯粹逐利，但实用主义也给了我后来的机会。
Jashy (13:41)
美国梦对我们黑人来说往往是谎言——贫富起点悬殊、系统性剥夺。我想寻找“跳船”的选项，中国正处高速增长，我需要更多选择。
MIT 岁月
Jashy (17:33)
进 MIT 不易：先被 waitlist，是校方嫌我化学 SAT 2 分低。最后靠教务处领导力挺，才翻盘。我也因此明白：能力之外，公关与人脉同样关键。
在 MIT，我加入“Chocolate City”宿舍社群——都是少数族裔男生，彼此扶持、同学同乐、开派对。专业上我从生物医学转到机械工程，因为喜欢“从无到有”的创造感。
2016 年，在一位研究中国多年的教授鼓励下，我参加了上海两周戏剧研讨班，第一次踏上中国；陆家嘴的未来感与静安寺的古今并置让我震撼，也埋下深度了解中国的种子。
毕业季我申请了 Rhodes、Marshall 和苏世民学者；前两者落榜，却收获更契合的苏世民项目，在清华读完一年的公共政策硕士。
苏世民学者体验
Jashy (28:31)
苏世民学者由黑石集团 CEO Stephen Schwarzman 资助，目标是培养理解中美关系的未来领袖。清华像“中国 MIT”，与北大“哈佛”隔街相望。项目课程让我系统了解中国政府体制、经济驱动力，以及从清末到新中国成立的近现代史，为我日后在华工作奠定了认知框架。
中国的“黑人体验”
Jashy (33:26)
在中国当黑人的体验复杂：好奇的围观、拍照、摸头发，乃至夜店门口凭肤色被拒。相比美国的制度性种族主义，这里的偏见更多源于陌生与单一文化环境。我渐渐学会用流利中文先发制人，也学会给无知留空间。
有次我在城中村的华为店换手机，店员劝我“找个中国姑娘生混血奥运冠军”，听着荒唐又滑稽——但也只能笑笑。
深耕深圳制造
Jashy (42:02)
2019 我加入一家深圳硬件设计公司，半机设半项目管理；逼着自己用工程级中文与工厂沟通。2021 跳到 Apple 中国，负责摄像头模组量产交付，两大 KPI：交付量和良率。一旦出问题，就得“打火”协调从设计到供应链的每一环。
与此并行，我和伙伴在 2024 成立 The Sparrows，三人团队却已完成从 15 万片卫生巾发往塞拉利昂，到为大型 NGO 开发医疗器械等项目。我们自称“精通中文、英文和工程”。
中国制造的护城河
Jashy (51:17)
未来十年中国制造难被取代：
1. 产业链极其完整，几乎所有零部件都能在国境内配齐；
2. 劳动力勤奋高效；
3. 高等教育普及，工程人才充沛；
4. 即便东南亚人工更便宜，效率差距仍让大企业望而却步。
中美经济深度捆绑，若贸易战升级到极端（例如全面禁运），苹果等美企将瞬间瘫痪，S&P 500 都会受创。
给年轻人的建议
Jashy (57:02)
20 多岁别怕折腾。我很幸运没背学贷、没家庭负担，才能在中国闯荡七年。趁年轻去做疯狂的事——未来回头看，所有经历都会串成线。正如 Steve Jobs 所说：“你无法向前连接点点滴滴，唯有回顾时才能看懂那些连线。”
欢迎关注我的 Instagram @jashsparrows，看我继续分享中国制造背后的故事，以及更多成语视频。
Susan (1:07:28)
感谢收听《临界空间》。如果本期内容触动了你，欢迎订阅、留言或分享自己的故事。我们下期节目再见，继续探索“临界”之意。拜拜！
